What do you think of the Civ VI great people?

[ArdentFire88]

Hello everyone, hope you're having a good day/night. I have had this idea on my mind for a while and now I decided to let it out: Great People.

Obtaining and using Great People in Civ VI has changed quite a bit from the last game. In the previous games, each civilization (and technically city) had its own progress bar towards getting Great People. The only real competition for getting Great People in that game was Great Prophets for establishing your religion, and even then, a civilization that follows a religion can still produce prophets if they have enough faith.

Now, it is a competition to earn Great People, which in some cases makes historical sense (Having to move to a place that would either be safer or better for there works. [Ex: Wernher Von Braun]). This can help stop those who spam a dozens of Great People from your empire (Civ V Nebuchadnezzar is an example).

Another thing that is different between Civ 6 and others (and probably more controversial) is Undying Great People. At first, I was confused: "Why does Gorgo have so many scientists!!!" But then I realized that the Great People I captured were actually transported back to the capital. ?. Did they escape? No, that's just the game. I don't know why they implemented this. I'm fine with immortal engineers, but it just doesn't make much sense... I guess they make better scouts.

Now. What do you think of TakeTwoInteractive/2K/Firaxis' approach to Great People? Do you like the new competition and Invincible Great People, or do you like the old ways? Feedback is appreciated!

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I like the system. It feels very engaging to me to see where other civs are and compete with them. I like the unique abilities. They make some classes a lot more worthwhile than they were in V.

 

[Roy P Cat]

Overall I like the system particulary with writers, artists, merchants and engineers.

But the way scientist system works, with Eurekas from doing/building things (e.g. 1 mine = wheel Eureka) means I am finding science or Campus districts are a low priority. I am a bit disappointed that the way GP scientists are currently set up that I can research flight by about turn 230 having built only 2 Campusus etc in a 8 city civ, and have science victory by about turn 350. I suppose I could always pass over Scientists, but that just doesn't seem right.

 

[TomKQT]

Great merchants and engineers are usually great. Great scientists are a bit worse, there are many quite useless (1 eureka etc.).
Given by how easy the combat is in Civ6, I'm not bothering with generals and admirals anymore. I mean I don't use their combat bonus ability, because moving them around with your army is tedious and you really don't need the bonus. So I always use their one-use ability (this may also be the reason why I skip some of them when the one-use ability is not good for me).
And musicians, writers and artists? In many games I avoided them, because I didn't want to get accidental culture victory (happened to me few times). On the other hand when I wanted to end a game and culture victory seemed to be the easiest one, I rushed them.
What I don't like with these 3 is that there is no alternate use as in Civ5. You even no longer get money for selling them. So if I'm avoiding culture victory, I often just destroy them and get nothing at all. I think there should be the option to sell them for money or for culture (selling for culture would make sense IMHO).

 

[Tdot1]

On the whole I think that the Great People system is simply amazing in Civ VI and I love how you have to compete for great people, it's such a good system. However, I firstly think that there should be more variance with great people and not just Sun Tzu all the time as the first great general. Secondly, as you pointed out, the fact that when you capture great people they mystically return to the owner's capital seems totally dumb. Surely you should be able to capture them?

 

[kaspergm]

I overall like the system, but it does seem to have some flaws for me. The biggest one is that in many cases, rushing for a certain type of great person will actually be in your disadvantage. This is most pronounced with Great Artists, where the early ones will give you religious art, which is actually in your disadvantage because it's very hard to get theming bonuses with these. The great engineers is another prominent example of the early ones being basically crap.

The other flaw, which is somewhat related to the above, is the fact that often when you pick a great person, you'll unlock another one which is much better, even from the same era. This for me is very bad game design, because it punishes you for being first to achieve something (which should always be rewarded in a game like this).

To fix these things, I would like to see changes like:

• When you unlock a Great Person, you can choose from any person from the remaining pool from that specific era. This means that first person always gets to pick the person he prefers from that era.
• When the great person era advances, GP points need to reset for all players with regards to that type of person. The current system where passing on early great persons to secure later (and better) ones seems illogical and bad for gameplay to me.
• Great person costs, particularly in earlier eras, need to be scaled down to balance above.

Also related to that, but not specifically about great persons:

• Super fast era advancement, particularly around classical-medieval-renaissance-industrial era, needs to be fixed. As currently is, most of the GPs from these eras before industrial are never unlocked.

Finally, I have to say that while I like the difference in the great persons, and don't mind some being better than others (particularly if a free-pick mechanism is introduced), Adam Smith needs to go. As much as I love him, he is just ridiculously overpowered, and the fact that there's a whole meta-game around getting him specifically in every single game sort of kills the whole point with the system.

 

[Victoria]

On deity the eras fly by so fusing them would be good.
Great artists are the big let down for me, I use them to stop barbs spawning, i disvover the world quite early
Many times I just kill them
Other than that its abgreat improvement, even the one eurekas are good because it can trigger one you cannot get yourself.
The thing I like best is passing on them

 

[Siptah]

I really like the system in Civ VI. It is just great to compete. I agree that some Great Scientists are not good enough and I constantly earn Great Admirals on water maps that I don't use / want. And somehow passing on GP doesn't seem right to me. However, their movement needs to be cut down heavily. Only the rare ones that have abilities in far away lands (Darwin, the one that gives a luxury from some point of the map) should have 4 movement. The others can teleport anyway and thus 2 movement should be sufficient. I like that they are unkillable - it would be too easy to exploit for human players since you always know when and where a GP will spawn. If you could kill/capture the great prophet of another civ, the whole religious race would be useless. You'd always just wait for your neighbor to generate that Great Prophet and steal it.

 

[Victoria]

You cannot steal a GP

 

[Siptah]

You cannot steal a GP

I didn't say you can. I wrote that if you could, you would do it all the time.

 

[Jarms48]

Whilst great scientists are boring, they are effective. I'd like the great artists/musicians/writers to have some form of passive or alternate abilities, similar to what they had in Civ 5

 

[kaspergm]

I'd like the great artists/musicians/writers to have some form of passive or alternate abilities, similar to what they had in Civ 5

Yes, that is also urgently needed!

 

[GIO888]

I love that you can pass on them but also divert city production to getting them.

Recently as Tomyris I was in a space race with the Japanesey dude and caught and overtook him on the vital Great Engineer that bumped Space Race projects - launched my last Mars component with him breathing down my neck.

Incidentally shows the AI can actually be entertaining when you happen coincidentally to hit their core intent by accident and not on purpose!

 

[darkace77450]

I like the new system, but I feel there's a lot of room for improvement.

The Great Person Queue
With the current queue system, if you're looking for a specific GP you may be forced to pass on whomever is currently available. This is fine, in theory, but the AI often generates too little GPPs to clear the queue before the era advances. This means purchasing an otherwise useless Great Person just to clear the queue is often the better alternative. I'd rather there be a pool system wherein the GP of a given era are place in pools from which we choose when we obtain enough GPPs of a given type.

Great Scientists
Because many of the Great Scientists trigger eurakas that we may have already triggered naturally, there arise occasions when the current GS is literally worthless to our empire. And if the AI isn't generating enough Great Scientist Points to clear the queue in a timely manner, then we're forced to purchase a useless Great Person just to keep the queue from crashing to a halt. This isn't good design. I'd rather Great Scientists that trigger eurakas for specific techs instead apply half the science required to research them. This means they won't go to waste if we've already triggered the eurekas they're supposed to trigger.

Great Writers
As is, Great Writers, Musicians, and Artists are rather bland. They all do one thing and one thing only; they generate Great Works of Writing, Art, and Music, respectively. To break up this homogeneity I'd replace Great Writers with Great Philosophers. Great Philosophers would be to culture and government what Great Scientists are to research and technology. Some would trigger inspirations for civics, some would generate lump sums of culture, some would produce envoys, and others could add government policy slots. I'd still have some - your Platos, your Hobbes, etc - create Great Works of Writing, but overall there would be much greater variety and far more interesting decisions to be made than what we're getting from Great Writers.

I'd consider classifying the more traditional writers, those who wrote to entertain rather than enlighten, as Great Artists. Shakespeare worked in prose instead of marble and Dickinson put ink on paper instead of oil on canvas, but that doesn't make them any less creative than guys like Michelangelo or Monet. Of course such a move begs the question "why not classify Great Musicians as Artists too?" I don't have a great answer to that, but I don't think I'd be adverse to rolling Great Musicians into the Great Artist category so long as the pool of Great Works didn't become too diluted to make theming practical.

 

[Olleus]

I like it (apart from GWAM), they feel more unique. Once again, the UI could do some work. I'd like to see what the next person in each category is so I have some information on whether I want to buy them or pass.

 

[Victoria]

I would like to be clear on great writers.
While they only do 1 thing, since the buff they do that thing very well.
Pushing great writers early provides good sound culture and tourism. +8 culture for a great writer is not to be sniffed at.
Great artists may as well use their paintings in ship sails for all I care

 

[Siptah]

I also think Great Writers are the most usable of the three culture/tourism related great people. They don't need to be changed at all - giving steady tourism and culture makes cultural districts worth building and I like that the buildings in there are more or less worthless when they are not filled with writings or art or whatever.
I can even imagine a similar thing for the last building in the science district: instead of giving science directly, they could have place for a great scientist and you need to put the GS in there to get his/her benefit and some steady science income.
Great Musicians and Artists are another thing however. The shuffling around Great Works of Art is tiresome. Why not include much more artists that are cheaper but everyone just generates one piece of art?
I'm fine with archeologists though. It is a bit of work to get 3 or 4 themed museums, but it is doable and not too tiresome. I feel I'm often very lucky anyway when it comes to digging up things. I also like how other civs denounce you when you dig in their lands and take the artifacts with you.

 

[ShinigamiKenji]

Overall, I like the current system. My only complaints would really be the GWAM issue and being stuck with a useless GP in the queue.

 

[RohirrimElf]

I just wish there was an option to expand them for an golden age like earlyer civs.
If i dont find a use for them. Sometimes you own to many great generals/admirals.
Or a scientist that boosts faith which you dont have a good use for.
Maybe it would be good to get a discount for your first one. It is hard to compete if you are late for say culture or science. And there are 3/4 civs way ahead in the race.

 

[LDiCesare]

I don't like the generals/admirals at all. They give a bonus you don't really need, you have to attach them, move them around, then they become obsolete. I actually prefer Civ IV great generals, which I alwyas put as military instructors in cities. Also, the way they were earnt in previous games (based on combat) made more sense. It synergised with how you played. It was simple, straightforward. Now it's bland, you have to pay faith or gold to get great generals instead of actually fighting.
Great prophets are limited in number so I never use them, they and religion are very badly implemented imo.
Great scientists are abit weak, the rest are fine.
The one great person per era is just awfully bad on Deity. I never get my first great person before mid/late in the game unless I hamstring myself by focusing on it,and it's not worth it. Specialists no longer provide GPP, so the only way to get them is through wonders (waste of hammers), districts or by buying them. None of that feels funny, there's no planning involved. Give GPP from specialists, give us some means to play with the filling of the bar other than rush-buying it in the end.
Overall, I feel like they have been removed from the early game entirely unless I play badly in every other domain in order to get them, and they only serve the purpose of getting better in those domains I'd have to neglect.