What leaders and/or nations do you want in Civilization VII?

[Ryansinbela]

Just a few, it's too late here in PST for a full list of 50 (some of these will doubtless sound familiar):

Russia under Dmitrii Donskoy or Ivan IV
(Republican) Rome under the Gracchi or Cincinnatus
Greece under Kleopatra of Epirus
Gaul/Keltikoi under Diviciacus
Germany under Frederick William, the Great Elector
Kusha under Kanishka
Chola under Rajaraja I
Persia under Shapur I
France under Henri IV or Louis XI or Napoleon III
England under Henry II or Anne[
Egypt under Hatshepset
Comanche under Quanah Parker
Haida Gwaii under Cummashawa
Wyandot (Wendat) under Kondiaronk

What Anne are you referring to

Also is there any place to read about Cummashawa

 

[Edmund Ironside]

being a bad person is not really a compelling reason to exclude someone from being a leader in Civ...unless you want an empty roster.

TBH if we want to turn England into the villain civ I think we should just jump straight to George III.

Hmmm...


Also as mentioned Cromwell was a very effective leader, and had an excellent military record. Another positive is he played a role in the jews being allowed back into England. As for the ban on Christmas, Cromwell's involvement with it is considered peripheral by most historians

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

What Anne are you referring to

I believe he is referring to the Anne who ruled the United Kingdom. Unless there is another Anne I have not heard of?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

What Anne are you referring to

I believe he is referring to the Anne who ruled the United Kingdom. Unless there is another Anne I have not heard of?

It's obviously the ever so popular Queen Anne of Cleves.

 

[Zaarin]

Hmmm...


Also as mentioned Cromwell was a very effective leader, and had an excellent military record. Another positive is he played a role in the jews being allowed back into England. As for the ban on Christmas, Cromwell's involvement with it is considered peripheral by most historians

I mean, I get you're trying to make me look inconsistent, but I didn't say Cromwell should be excluded because he's a villain--I said he's not the villain I would pick. And my jab about Christmas was directed at Puritans in general because I never miss an opportunity to make a jab at Jean Calvin and his curmudgeonly theological kin.

 

[Edmund Ironside]

What about William and Mary as joint rulers, who could also be a ruler option for England and the Netherlands (though I guess Mary jointly ruling the Netherlands would be inaccurate).

Mary II also seems like a decent person by ruler standards. While Elizabeth I happily let her sailors who were victorious over the Spanish die at sea afterwards so as to save a few bucks, Mary in contrast was instrumental in the foundation of the Royal Hospital for Seamen, Greenwich, after the Anglo-Dutch victory at the Battle of La Hogue.

 

[Zaarin]

I really don't want to see "one leader, multiple civs" return, even if I've consigned myself to "one civ, multiple leaders." I'm also not sure that Civ would benefit from having multiple rulers on screen simultaneously, though perhaps it could be done in a non-jarring way if used sparingly. Personally, if a Mary is going to lead England, Mary I gets my vote. She was very capable (if, perhaps, not as capable as her sister), and her reputation for persecution is exaggerated (nor was Elizabeth I a paragon of tolerance). Though, as ever, Elizabeth I is far and away my preference for England, and will remain so until Firaxis gets her right.

 

[Patine]

He canceled Christmas over being a Puritan because Christmas is devilish popery and because Heaven forbid someone not be miserable. That's also a little unfair to George and a lotta unfair to James.

I think it's also unfair to portray George III as an outright villainous leader. That's viewpoint is very much moreso a cliched American and French historiographical bias than any across the board and balanced historical truth.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

He canceled Christmas over being a Puritan because Christmas is devilish popery and because Heaven forbid someone not be miserable. That's also a little unfair to George and a lotta unfair to James.

Puritanism: The terrible, lurking fear that someone, somewhere, may be Happy . . .

What Anne are you referring to

Also is there any place to read about Cummashawa

Anne, last of the Stuart line, Queen of England, Scotland, and Ireland and first monarch of Great Britain after the act of Union in 1707. Modern historians have been hard at work rehabilitating her reputation, which Sarah Churchill maliciously maligned in her memoirs written after the queen was safely dead. While some Scots have never accepted it (listen to Steeleye Span's rendition of "Parcel of Rogues" for their opinion of England and the English - "Such a parcel of rogues in a Nation") the Union created Europe's largest 'free trade' area, and boosted Britain's economy enormously. In her reign, despite the rise of 'cabinet' government, there was virtually no major conflict between crown and cabinet ministers - unlike most of her successors, and her reign saw Britain produce both a Wonder: Blenheim Palace and its gardens, and a slew of potential Great Writers: Daniel Defoe, Alexander Pope, Johnathon Swift, and she patronized Joseph Handel the composer. Styles of architecture and furniture design were both named after her. Potentially, then, Cultural or Economic Uniques.
Fun Historical Trivia What If: she loathed the Hanoverians and wouldn't even allow any of them to visit Britain during her reign, but if she hadn't died two months before Anne, Sophia of Hannover would have been Queen of Great Britain after her, and Sophia was a notable intellectual and also patron of the arts, unlike her son George (I of Great Britain) who was a noted patron of London's brothels . . .

As for Cummashawa, Cumshewa, Go'mshewah, Cummashawaas, Cumshewas, or Gumchewas, I don't know of any single source. He is mentioned by name in George Dixon's account of early fur trading with the Haida in 1787, and he was fingered as being responsible for the capture of an American sloop in 1794 and the massacre of its crew. He and Koyah are virtually the only 'hereditary leaders' we have names and ANY information for among the Haida, and both were great traders, raiders, and warriors, so it's a coin-toss as to which one could be used. One thing about Cummashewa that impressed me is that his warriors started with bows and arrows and adopted firearms after only a few meetings with Europeans, either guns they bought or took from ships they captured - including small cannon that they mounted on their 'Head' canoes, which could be the basis for one really interesting UU!

 

[Zaarin]

I think it's also unfair to portray George III as an outright villainous leader. That's viewpoint is very much moreso a cliched American and French historiographical bias than any across the board and balanced historical truth.

I agree, but Firaxis is an American company. There's also the persistent American belief that England lost the war because George III was crazy, but his mental illness didn't manifest until long after the Revolution.

 

[Xandinho]

I think we can have 60 civs, why not?

North America:

1. America
2. Canada
3. Cherokee
4. Haudenosaunee
5. Navajo

Latin America:

6. Argentina/Gran Colombia/Mexico
7. Aztec
8. Brazil
9. Inca
10. Maya
11. Muisca
12. Taíno

Africa:

13. Ashanti/Benin
14. Egypt
15. Ethiopia
16. Kongo/Ndongo
17. Mali
18. Morocco
19. Nubia
20. Swahili

Europe:

21. Austria/Bohemia
22. Bulgaria/Romania
23. Byzantines
24. England
25. France
26. Gaul/Ireland
27. Germany
28. Greece
29. Hungary
30. Macedon
31. Netherlands
32. Norway/Denmark
33. Poland
34. Portugal
35. Rome
36. Russia
37. Spain
38. Sweden
39. Venice

Middle East and Central Asia:

40. Arabia
41. Armenia/Georgia
42. Assyria
43. Babylon
44. Ottomans
45. Parthia
46. Persia
47. Phoenicia
48. Sumer

South and East Asian:

49. China
50. India
51. Indonesia
52. Japan
53. Khmer
54. Korea
55. Mongolia
56. Siam
57. Vietnam

Oceania:

58. Australia
59. Maori
60. Tuʻi Tonga/Hawaii

If I have more time I will do which leaders I would like for each civ, already advancing that Egypt, China and India would have approximately 5 leaders each.

 

[Patine]

I agree, but Firaxis is an American company. There's also the persistent American belief that England lost the war because George III was crazy, but his mental illness didn't manifest until long after the Revolution.

But, Lord Frederick North, the Tory Party PM, introduced and passed all the Intolerable Acts and the declarations of the Colonies of Massachusetts and Virginia being in a state of rebellion (and, he, de facto, had the Olive Branch Accord rejected), and George III dutifully signed these. In 1780, North lost power in a vote of no confidence and a snap election, and the Whig Party leader, the Marquess of Rockingham, who had been sympathetic to the plight of the American colonists, had hoped for a peaceful and amicable solution as Leader of the Opposition, and had had a correspondence with Benjamin Franklin, became PM, and began working toward the Treaty of Paris three years later, which George III dutifully signed. Parliamentary power, especially of the Ministry and the PM, seemed very ascendant, de facto, even back then.

 

[Zaarin]

But, Lord Frederick North, the Tory Party PM, introduced and passed all the Intolerable Acts and the declarations of the Colonies of Massachusetts and Virginia being in a state of rebellion (and, he, de facto, had the Olive Branch Accord rejected), and George III dutifully signed these. In 1780, North lost power in a vote of no confidence and a snap election, and the Whig Party leader, the Marquess of Rockingham, who had been sympathetic to the plight of the American colonists, had hoped for a peaceful and amicable solution as Leader of the Opposition, and had had a correspondence with Benjamin Franklin, became PM, and began working toward the Treaty of Paris three years later, which George III dutifully signed. Parliamentary power, especially of the Ministry and the PM, seemed very ascendant, de facto, even back then.

You're not telling me anything I don't know. I'm merely talking about American perceptions of George III because Firaxis is an American company primarily targeting an American audience.

 

[Caesar of Bread]

You're not telling me anything I don't know. I'm merely talking about American perceptions of George III because Firaxis is an American company primarily targeting an American audience.

If Firaxis was primarily targeting an American audience, it would be like this

AMERICA (the best nation in the game) - George Washington/Abe Lincoln
England (tea sippers and colonialists) - George III
Germany (those dang Natzies) - Adolf Hitler
Russia (those dang Commies) - Joseph Stalin
China (those dang commies) - Mao Zedong
France (hon hon hon) - Napoleon
Rome (something) - Julius Caesar
Japan (anime uwu) - Naruto
Egypt (WaLk LiKe An EgYpTiAn) - King Tut

wait, whats a "Mayan" or "Kongo" or "Scythia"

(This is a joke on the historical illiteracy of Americans. *snip* As quoted by one of my best friends, either you are really smart in America [he said that I was] or you are really dumb)

Moderator Action: Deleted trolling comment. ~ LK

 

[Zaarin]

If Firaxis was primarily targeting an American audience, it would be like this

AMERICA (the best nation in the game) - George Washington/Abe Lincoln
England (tea sippers and colonialists) - George III
Germany (those dang Natzies) - Adolf Hitler
Russia (those dang Commies) - Joseph Stalin
China (those dang commies) - Mao Zedong
France (hon hon hon) - Napoleon
Rome (something) - Julius Caesar
Japan (anime uwu) - Naruto
Egypt (WaLk LiKe An EgYpTiAn) - King Tut

wait, whats a "Mayan" or "Kongo" or "Scythia"

(This is a joke on the historical illiteracy of Americans, primarily conservative Americans)

Uh...have you seen the leader roster for the first four iterations of Civ? You're not far off, excluding He Who Shall Not Be Named and the fictional one. Also Cleopatra is not a significant step up from Tutankhamun. Yes, Firaxis has gotten better from Civ4 onward about taking a more serious approach to history, but they're still an American company immersed in American pop culture and primarily targeting an American audience (and a Chinese audience because yuan ).

 

[Caesar of Bread]

Uh...have you seen the leader roster for the first four iterations of Civ? You're not far off, excluding He Who Shall Not Be Named and the fictional one. Also Cleopatra is not a significant step up from Tutankhamun. Yes, Firaxis has gotten better from Civ4 onward about taking a more serious approach to history, but they're still an American company immersed in American pop culture and primarily targeting an American audience (and a Chinese audience because yuan ).

That list is part of my roster for my previous civ-based game at my school. If you want to see it, here you go:
1. America - George Washington/Abe Lincoln/Donald Trump *snip*
2. Rome - Julius Caesar
3. Germany - Adolf Hitler
4. China - Mao Zedong/Xi Jinping
5. England - Elizabeth II
6. Egypt - King Tut/Cleopatra
7. Greece - Alexander the Great
8. Texas - Sam Houston (I live in Texas *snip*)
9. India - Gandhi
10. Russia - Joseph Stalin/Vladimir Putin
11. France - Napoleon
12. Ethiopia - Haile Selassie (there's a kid with an Ethiopian adopted brother in my grade that's why)
13. Israel - David
14. Vietnam - a kid at my school with Vietnamese ancestry
15. Lebanon - same case as above
16. Morocco - Hassan II (I studied on Morocco in 5th grade for a nation project)
17. Aztecs - Montezuma II (I barely slipped them in because they let me [I really wanted to do Nezalhualcoyotl, but they don't know about him])
18. Inca - Atahualpa (same with Aztecs [but this time they went to Peru so they also knew of Incas], I really wanted to do Pachacuti)
19. Sweden - Gustavus Adolphus
20. Vikings - Thor
21. Japan - Nezuko Kamado/Naruto
22. Byzantines - Justinian (I did my orthodox saint project on him!)
23. Austria - Franz Joseph (one of my former friends loves Austria, he's a capitalist monarchist as well [we are at constant political conflict])
24. Spain - Isabella/Alvaro Soler

Moderator Action: Deleted political/trolling comment. ~ LK

 

[Patine]

That list is part of my roster for my previous civ-based game at my school. If you want to see it, here you go:
1. America - George Washington/Abe Lincoln/Donald Trump (one of the worst presidents)
2. Rome - Julius Caesar
3. Germany - Adolf Hitler
4. China - Mao Zedong
5. England - Elizabeth II
6. Egypt - King Tut/Cleopatra
7. Greece - Alexander the Great
8. Texas - Sam Houston (I live in Texas, at least it's not Ted Cruz!)
9. India - Gandhi
10. Russia - Joseph Stalin/Vladimir Putin

Two living people, and one who died this year?

 

[Zaarin]

(This is a joke on the historical illiteracy of Americans, primarily conservative Americans. As quoted by one of my best friends, either you are really smart in America [he said that I was] or you are really dumb)

1. America - George Washington/Abe Lincoln/Donald Trump (one of the worst presidents)

Thank you for reminding us that the worst thing about Americans is not "historical ignorance" but an obsession with divisive tribal politics and "me and my team good, you and your team bad" mentality. As Tom Lehrer sang fifty years ago, "All of my folks hate all of your folks. It's as American as apple pie."

 

[Caesar of Bread]

Thank you for reminding us that the worst thing about Americans is not "historical ignorance" but an obsession with divisive tribal politics and "me and my team good, you and your team bad" mentality. As Tom Lehrer sang fifty years ago, "All of my folks hate all of your folks. It's as American as apple pie."

You are correct Zaarin. America has a terrible political problem

 

[Patine]

Thank you for reminding us that the worst thing about Americans is not "historical ignorance" but an obsession with divisive tribal politics and "me and my team good, you and your team bad" mentality. As Tom Lehrer sang fifty years ago, "All of my folks hate all of your folks. It's as American as apple pie."

Interestingly, a military historian had apparently done a study of comparative cruelty, excesses, harshness, gratuitous views and actions and nastiness of propaganda and attitudes, in a mean and general sense, toward the given enemy in every war where American troops by American troops and the public. The U.S. Civil War apparently ranks as the worst...