What should a good fantasy Civ DLC have?

[civilizationfanatic2000]

The first thing it needs is worldbuilding. Lots of it. To match what's in the civilopedia.

But are there other important things? Focus on simulating a fantasy world with magic and monsters in a 'realistic' fashion like Dwarf Fortress?

 

[BuchiTaton]

Definetely not a CIV dlc but a whole new game.
And "realistic magic" mean to invent your own set of laws of physics.

 

[Xandinho]

I wouldn't mind having a game where civs play with monsters from their own lore, something similar to Age of Mythology, but that should be a separate game that doesn't belong to the main Civ franchise.
The main series of Civs games must remain in historical reality, nothing fantasy or science fiction.

 

[Caesar of Bread]

The first thing it needs is worldbuilding. Lots of it. To match what's in the civilopedia.

But are there other important things? Focus on simulating a fantasy world with magic and monsters in a 'realistic' fashion like Dwarf Fortress?

None, a seperate game would be better

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I wouldn't mind having a game where civs play with monsters from their own lore, something similar to Age of Mythology, but that should be a separate game that doesn't belong to the main Civ franchise.
The main series of Civs games must remain in historical reality, nothing fantasy or science fiction.

Including, of course, Zombies, Vampires, Immortal Leaders, and other purely historical effects

The game has always had a certain amount of Fantasy in its core systems - Immortal Leaders and Immortal Civilizations being two of the most blatant.

What the OP is referring to, though, is a game based primarily on some fantasy world.

The problem with that is What World?

If you try to use a popular fantasy world - like Tolkien's which provides a basis for he majority of 'fantasy' worlds out there - you may run into immediate copyright problems, and also into the problem of how to make it different from dozens of other games trying to mine the same fantasy digs - note that Gygax's Dungeons & Dragons game Empire did just that, but added enough differences to avoid a visit from the Tolkien Estate's lawyers.

On the other hand, trying to make up your own separate and distinctive Fantasy World is Hard Work. You have to build a history and a geography from scratch, and no matter how much you borrow from 'real life' there's still a lot of gaps to fill in.
- And if you screw that up, nothing else you do will save the game.

Frankly, putting all that sweat into a DLC simply isn't worth it. As others have noted, better use it as the basis for an entirely new game.

You could call it Dungeons and Dragons or Warhammer, except I believe those are both already taken . . .

 

[Evie]

As a point of interest, Gygax did not add enough difference to avoid a visit from the Tolkien estate.

He was rather forced to remedy a distinct dearth of difference at lawyer point by the Tolkien estate. And did the absolute bare minimum of shuffling letters around and using common speech untrademarkable synonyms to get away with it.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I stand corrected.

I confess, my only connection to D&D, besides selling the stuff in a Barnes & Noble Bookstore for 15+ years, was at a small gaming convention in Philadelphia back about 1975 where at a tiny folding table they were selling copies of the original TSR-published D&D ruleset, contained in three small paperback pamphlets. Years before, I had played Gary's earlier medieval miniatures ruleset they were based on (Chainmail) and was not impressed by them (they were my first introduction to the English Longbow terminally guided never-missing arrows, which became a meme in miniatures gaming), so I passed on the new 'role-playing fantasy' rules.

I have occasionally wondered in the decades since what an original set of D&D rules might be worth to a collector now . . .

 

[pokiehl]

The most fantasy that civ should venture into is like the Heroes and Secret Society dlcs. Optional modes that don’t change the game.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

I don't why see what a fantasy DLC for the main game would offer. Surely wouldn't an entire spin-off game be better?

 

[civilizationfanatic2000]

I don't why see what a fantasy DLC for the main game would offer. Surely wouldn't an entire spin-off game be better?

Or an officially-sanctioned game mod like Fall From Heaven 2.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

The first thing it needs is worldbuilding. Lots of it. To match what's in the civilopedia.

But are there other important things? Focus on simulating a fantasy world with magic and monsters in a 'realistic' fashion like Dwarf Fortress?

making Heroes of Might and Magic series out of Civ franchise huh?
personally battle scenes and army organizations are best implemented HoMM models (to some if not all degree).

Then again F'Xis has to license or even do worldbuildings of mythical humanoid civilizations. first F'xis has to determine whether do Elves, Dwarves or Orcs and goblins have diversified nations or existed under unified leaderships? even Elves are generally diversified into three groups (based on Dungeons and Dragons settings, which itself a cornerstone to Medieval Fantasy genres made by everybody else)
A. Wood Elves: The most common 'Elves' we usually known. they later became factory workers when Saint Nicholaus left Byzantium and resettled Norseland and christianized these peoples.
so often popularized as a race of ace archers (modelled after actual English Yeomanry, though they are hunter-gatherers rather than agrarians).
B. High Elves: Elves that develop 'civilizations' silimiar (and so often superior) to humans. they may even be scientific race or magical race entirely.
C. Dark Elves: (Drows and maybe other terms), those who are so often viewed as 'Evil'. in some settings they can be the same people as Arachnoids in Robert A. Heinlien's Starship Troopers. (Original Arachnoids in that settings were very much modelled after Dark Elves, fighting elements are in fact humanoids with hive minds, this race can also be modelled as being hitech race rather than ones modelled after Xenomorphs in Aliens settings (too bad this franchise is f___ed up by IP Mishandlings inside or outside Hollywood or even from the Wallstreet)
Though not every franchise viewed 'Dark Elves' as evil. Blizzard's Warcraft franchise redefined them as nocturnal people and even listed them as 'original' elves and pure hunter-gaterers like Wood Elves. Jon van Caneghem's era Might and Magic VIII shaped them as being more 'human' in societies (and developed the same 'human' cultures and civilizations, they however have hispanic or Native American skins) . ruled under Merchant Repubic as opposed to anyone else in the same settings that has rigid monarchy system.

All in all. these 'Elves' are modelled after J.R.R. Tolkein's fantasy fictions. and his view became standard view of Elves accepted by others.

One that's less of Worldbuilding is mythical monsters: Dragons, M-Taurs, and such, in place of, or side by side to Barbarians. these are mighty being. any player that successfully killed ones earn hefty rewards.

 

[The_goggles_do_nothing]

My first question would be "what is a civ" in this setting? Do you have a Troll civ, a Dwarf civ, etc, or are there a bunch of multi-ethnic kingdoms?

Most LOTR inspired fantasy setting don't have technological advacement so what takes the place of the tech tree? Do you have a "tech" tree where you discover more powerful potions and breed more powerful dragons?

 

[Frolk]

I agree with a lot of the users here - it should be its own game. That said, it's a game that I'd be interested in.

Just thinking off the top of my head, though:

- Have highly customizable civs. Setting up your game, choosing your settler should feel like an RPG character creator, allowing you to define the general character of your civ at the outset. So, start with something like race (human, elf, dwarf, etc...), and describe your pre-empire society type (hunter gatherers, pastoralists, raiders, wandering mystics, etc...). These could all carry some minor bonuses that become less significant as the game progresses (a society of elven raiders should be able to evolve into a peaceful, multi-racial state that focuses on the pursuit of arcane knowledge, if that's what the player wants to do) There could be some preset options with lore behind them, but if you're going to blend civ with a fantasy world, I feel like the idea is to let the lore create itself.
- Story suggestion: I kind of head-cannon this with regular civ games, but this should be a sort of post-apocalyptic world. There were great empires in the past, but something happened and there was some sort of global collapse, with survivors eking out an existence for centuries. Only now that the world has stabilized and recovered somewhat can people begin to create more permanent settlements again. You should be able to explore ancient ruins and relearn some ancient secrets that might give your civilization a bit of a boost.
- Monsters. These would be kind of like barbarians in civ games, randomly popping up in the fog of war, attacking units that venture outside the safety of civilization, and occasionally attacking civilizations directly. There should be a variety of monster types, all with their own behaviour (eg. dragons like to spawn close to natural sources of gold, and prefer to attack traders and commercial improvements; harpies spawn near mountains and spread disease, etc...).
- Legendary Monsters. These would be more like natural disasters from Gathering Storm. They'll occasionally attack your empire, destroy improvements, kill citizens, and damage units and there's nothing you can do to defend yourself. Unlike natural disasters, there are no yield rewards to offset the damage, however, you should be able to track the monster down to its lair and slay it there for a substantial reward.
- The tech tree could be more like Civ: BE's tech web, where you can pursue different types of magical knowledge, technological know-how (a late game techy civ could have a steampunk aesthetic), and philosophical ideas (where most of your government policies will come from).
- Victory types should feel like the culmination of an epic narrative. Some ideas: Domination (obviously), completing some sort of grand project that requires focusing on certain strands of the tech web (magic, engineering, and philosophy), or averting some world-ending disaster (with diplomacy, military might, or a combination of the two). There should be no victories where you're just watching some number go up, and all you can do is try to make it go up up faster.
- Bring back the random quests from Civ 4!
- Recon units should be flavoured as adventuring parties and there should be quests specifically designed to be completed by them (eg. "rumours speak of a dwarven kingdom far to the north: we had best send some adventurers to make peaceful contact with them - sending an army to make contact may not be taken well", or "it is said that the Great Wyrm can only be killed with a weapon made of celestial iron; find some so that we may finally put an end to this terrible beast"

 

[civilizationfanatic2000]

My first question would be "what is a civ" in this setting? Do you have a Troll civ, a Dwarf civ, etc, or are there a bunch of multi-ethnic kingdoms?

Most LOTR inspired fantasy setting don't have technological advacement so what takes the place of the tech tree? Do you have a "tech" tree where you discover more powerful potions and breed more powerful dragons?

specifics would depend on the setting. honestly, the best fantasy setting for CIV 5/6- like mechanics would have to occupy one extreme on the fantastical-mundane spectrum. either a fantasy with its own rules down to the smallest of details that rewards you for playing to those rules, or a fantasy world that works like earth but magic is overlaid on