What will be the remaining civs in Brave New World?

[AbsintheRed]

I don't mean Bohemia literally equals the Holy Roman Empire, I just doubt they will ever include a kingdom which was part of a bigger empire for most of its 'lifetime'. We already had the HRE in Civ IV, would they really choose Bohemia over the HRE this time? We might as well have a Habsburg civilization.

Yeah, whether Bohemia is significant/worthy enough for a full civ is another question
Nevertheless, adding a HRE civ was a huge mistake in Civ IV, while Bohemia could theoretically work

 

[ales_]

Nevertheless, adding a HRE civ was a huge mistake in Civ IV

Why do you think so?

 

[Art Grin]

Why do you think so?

Because HRE= Medieval Germany+Cronies.
If they want a civ lead by Charlemagne they should add the Frankish Empire.

 

[blackcatatonic]

Yes, HRE doesn't really work as a Civ. Though Charlemagne as a leader is a really cool idea, and part of me is sad that we'll never get to see him in CiV!

 

[Art Grin]

Unless the Franks are the dark-horse of this expansion.

 

[ferretbacon]

I always liked the HRE in cIV. As you can see from my signature, I think there’s plenty of room in the game for the HRE so long as the developers are willing to modify Germany a little bit (I think they ought to anyway).

P.S. Is anyone else getting a weird popup window every time you left click anywhere on the site? It started yesterday and it’s only happening on civfanatics, nowhere else.

It’s just a blank page that opens itself up in a second browser window, happens on IE, Firefox, and Chrome and on multiple computers (on separate networks, nonetheless). Can’t only be me.

 

[Art Grin]

I liked them in Civ4, but I think it's best they don't reappear in civ.
The way the developers handled Germany was the right way to do it. Instead of focusing on Prussia, as if it was the only German state in history, and WW2 ,like in previous games, they decided to show the entirety of Germany's history.
If Firaxis really wants to have Charlemagne in the game they should make a Frankish civ with him as their leader.

 

[steveg700]

P.S. Is anyone else getting a weird popup window every time you left click anywhere on the site? It started yesterday and it’s only happening on civfanatics, nowhere else.

It’s just a blank page that opens itself up in a second browser window, happens on IE, Firefox, and Chrome and on multiple computers (on separate networks, nonetheless). Can’t only be me.

It's been discussed in the site feedback forum. Lots of people getting it.

I was able to stop them by going into IE's security tab and adding forums.civfanatics.com to the "restricted sites" security zone.

 

[ferretbacon]

It's been discussed in the site feedback forum. Lots of people getting it.

I was able to stop them by going into IE's security tab and adding forums.civfanatics.com to the "restricted sites" security zone.

Thanks, good to know. It’s been driving me nuts.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Why do you think so?

Why would I think otherwise?
Actually.. why would anyone think otherwise?

Just to have a random example (could be made with almost all civs, not just Arabia)
Having a HRE civ instead of Germany is the same as having either the Rashidun or the Umayyad Caliphate instead of Arabia...
Having both Germany and the HRE is the same as having both the Umayyad Caliphate and Arabia
Why would anyone want that? We are talking about civilizations, not states...
Adding a HRE "civ" was one of the worst moves Firaxis ever done connected to civs

 

[nunor]

Problem is, at each installment, Firaxis seems to care less and less for 'civilizations' and more and more for 'empires'. The inclusion of the HRE in Civ IV was a testimony of that. And then, in Civ V, every single civilization name is apposed to the epithet 'EMPIRE' - to the extent that we have such absurdities as the Polynesian Empire and the Iroquois Empire.

 

[Eru Ilúvatar]

There`s Rome...

 

[otaman1]

Why would I think otherwise?
Actually.. why would anyone think otherwise?

Just to have a random example (could be made with almost all civs, not just Arabia)
Having a HRE civ instead of Germany is the same as having either the Rashidun or the Umayyad Caliphate instead of Arabia...
Having both Germany and the HRE is the same as having both the Umayyad Caliphate and Arabia
Why would anyone want that? We are talking about civilizations, not states...
Adding a HRE "civ" was one of the worst moves Firaxis ever done connected to civs

Or for an easier example, having New York as a civ and not America

 

[ferretbacon]

Or for an easier example, having New York as a civ and not America

Sorry, but New York is to America is not the same as HRE is to Germany.

I think identifying the HRE as strictly a predecessor to Germany is a gross simplification. The HRE encompassed much more than just the modern state of Germany and had a longer and more varied history than some of the civs already in the game. The devolopers chose to lump in the HRE with Germany, but it didn't have to be that way, nor does it necessarily have to remain so. I'd welcome them back with open arms, personally.

 

[Dom1nus]

Mapuches should be in, we need more south america civs, and they deserve it.If not Argentina before Colombia, with San Martin as their leader (way greatter than Bolivar with less resourses).
Hungary would be nice too, Summer and maybe a usa native tribe.

 

[PhilBowles]

Problem is, at each installment, Firaxis seems to care less and less for 'civilizations' and more and more for 'empires'. The inclusion of the HRE in Civ IV was a testimony of that. And then, in Civ V, every single civilization name is apposed to the epithet 'EMPIRE' - to the extent that we have such absurdities as the Polynesian Empire and the Iroquois Empire.

Civ IV did exactly the same - check the civ selection screen. You get the "Native American Empire", "Zulu Empire" and "Viking Empire" among others.

The HRE was a bad inclusion, particularly since it's fostered hopes of a subsequent HRE in Civ V, but it's still not as bad an offender as the Civ IV/Civ V take on the Celts.

I think identifying the HRE as strictly a predecessor to Germany is a gross simplification. The HRE encompassed much more than just the modern state of Germany and had a longer and more varied history than some of the civs already in the game.

Practically any country you can name had historical borders that at some stage differed from those of the modern state - we don't however demand an Angevin civ because it encompassed a wider area than either modern Britain or the period represented by the game's England. That's something of a nonargument, just as is "Rome isn't Italy because it didn't have modern Italy's borders". The HRE was to all intents and purposes the medieval and Renaissance German state; the fact that it encompassed Bohemia (among others) doesn't make it any less German than the Third Reich. If anything it's a "gross oversimplification" to apply modern state identities to the historical components of the HRE. The HRE saw itself as the German state: its full official name was "The Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation". It had essentially German governance, a German capital and German languages. It's only in the modern era that we classify the Czechs, for instance, in a separate cultural bracket. And for practical purposes "Germany" is a better name to apply to the empire than HRE, since the country and people were only referred to as the HRE for a period of 800 years or so while the adjective "German" refers to them throughout their history (including the HRE period).

 

[LastSword]

I would like to see:

<< Ukraina >>

Leader: Bohdan Khmelnytsky

(No epic beard, however mustache is characteristic enough)

UA: <War Looting> Pillaging gives nearest city based on tile values; double gold from pillaging
UU: Zaporozhian Cossack (replaces Lancers) no formation promotion; cheaper; ignores zone of control of the enemies
UU2: Hetman (replaces great general); distributes equally damage from ranged attacks amongst all combat land units within 2 tiles

In depth:
Pillagin' around world. Russel Crowe. (tall/military civilization)

===
Portugal, Sioux, Zulu are the most possible candidates in my opinion.

 

[AbsintheRed]

I'd welcome them back with open arms, personally.

Fortunately only very few people want the HRE
Actually I think there are more people who would find it ridiculous/dumb (or at least strange) to have both the HRE and Germany, than people who would welcome them with open arms.
Based on Civ IV, a good chunk (if not the majority) of the players would hate to see them in. I definitely would

Practically any country you can name had historical borders that at some stage differed from those of the modern state - we don't however demand an Angevin civ because it encompassed a wider area than either modern Britain or the period represented by the game's England. That's something of a nonargument, just as is "Rome isn't Italy because it didn't have modern Italy's borders". The HRE was to all intents and purposes the medieval and Renaissance German state; the fact that it encompassed Bohemia (among others) doesn't make it any less German than the Third Reich. If anything it's a "gross oversimplification" to apply modern state identities to the historical components of the HRE. The HRE saw itself as the German state: its full official name was "The Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation". It had essentially German governance, a German capital and German languages. It's only in the modern era that we classify the Czechs, for instance, in a separate cultural bracket. And for practical purposes "Germany" is a better name to apply to the empire than HRE, since the country and people were only referred to as the HRE for a period of 800 years or so while the adjective "German" refers to them throughout their history (including the HRE period).

Exactly, I wanted to post something very similar before saw your post!

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I liked the HRE in Civ IV, but mostly because of Charlemagne and its playstyle. He was such an important Medieval character. I have to accept that his place is not in Civ V because his domain was the predecessor of both France and Germany.

 

[blackcatatonic]

A Charlemagne leader screen in CiV would have been so cool. But I think they are unlikely to make the necessary changes to Germany to accommodate the HRE so frankly don't think it would happen.

Spoiler :

He even has the epic beard