Who builds Temple of Artemis?

[InFlux5]

This wonder seems so lackluster to me, I can't imagine any situation where I'd want to spend production on this....

 

[krc]

It's an extra 10% total food in every city. (That's what the "10% growth" actually means.) Even without the cheaper ranged units, ToA would be worth building. Oh, and it comes with a GE point, which can sometimes help you get an extra wonder later on.

 

[Browd]

It isn't in every city - just the city in which it is built.

 

[bayard sartoris]

It's a great wonder for growing faster, which is always great, therefore ToA is good in any situation.
Also, playing with a civ with a ranged UU (China or England, for example) makes it even better, and could be a decisive building for a domination victory. And the fact that it's gettable even on Immortal (I don't play Diety, but I assume should be a lot harder in this difficulty) makes it one of the greatest wonders for the human player in my opinion, and arguable the best one in ancient era.

 

[InFlux5]

It's an extra 10% total food in every city. (That's what the "10% growth" actually means.) Even without the cheaper ranged units, ToA would be worth building. Oh, and it comes with a GE point, which can sometimes help you get an extra wonder later on.

If I'm not mistaken, "growth" is not the same as total food. ToA adds 10% to your surplus food only, not the total food supply. If it was total food this would be a top priority in nearly every game.

 

[krc]

It isn't in every city - just the city in which it is built.

Hmm. I can usually count on Browd to get all the details correct. But the civopedia still says "10% growth in all cities," which is what it was originally. Has it changed?

 

[krc]

If I'm not mistaken, "growth" is not the same as total food. ToA adds 10% to your surplus food only, not the total food supply. If it was total food this would be a top priority in nearly every game.

There have been several threads discussing this in the past, and they always ended up concluding that it was based on total food, not surplus food.

 

[bayard sartoris]

Yes, it's in all cities.
The ToA bonus which sticks to the city in which it was built is the 15% production for ranged uits.
And the bonus goes for total food. It's really an impressive wonder.

 

[stormtrooper412]

The opportunity cost is insanely big though, you build that while you should be building settlers. The only time I found it viable was that OCC

 

[InFlux5]

Hmm, if it's total food that makes me rethink the wonder completely. It also makes me wary of effects which reference "food" or "growth". I thought "growth" universally referred to surplus food.

 

[BruinBound]

I built it in my OCC game, if you don't have a ton of food then ToA can be a huge help. For OCC I like to pair it with Hanging Gardens to make up for the lack of food caravans. Obviously it doesn't completely make up for them but better than nothing.

 

[bayard sartoris]

The opportunity cost is insanely big though, you build that while you should be building settlers. The only time I found it viable was that OCC

You are talking about Deity, right?
On Immortal, sometimes i get to build it while my second and third city are working on their libraries, and I think it has a good timing with NC.

 

[lindsay40k]

My friend had a decent Aztec start (lotsa lakes) and took both Artemis and Swords into Ploughshares. Gigantic cities. She ended up making it a good science game, simply from sheer size of populations.

 

[joncnunn]

On Deity, the AI actually starts with the tech for this, which makes it gone absurdly early.

Even on Immortal, the opportunity cost seems rather high as to build in time you'd either have to delay National College or a settler.

 

[reddishrecue]

All civilizations that have ancient wonders dlc on. The wonder has good growth bonuses.

 

[ThorHammerz]

It isn't in every city - just the city in which it is built.

Just to clear any ambiguity about this statement:

- The 10% extra food is applied to all cities (global).
- Everything else (archer production bonus, GE point) is local to the city.

 

[consentient]

My 2p:

1. Even though the AI starts with Archery, it actually doesn't often go for ToA. It's quite gettable if you want it, even on Deity. Not guaranteed, but >50% gettable.

2. Since it's always 10%, it's better than HG, which is also more gettable now less AIs go Tradition, because HG is a flat boost, rather than exponential. The bigger your cities get, the more tiles they work, the more that 10% is worth in absolute numbers. If you want really big cities, ToA helps a lot.

3. The ranged unit bonus applies to Keshiks and Impis and other great Midgame units, so will help you pump them out faster.

Conclusion for me: If my capital has a lot of early food AND production, and I hit pop ruins, etc, and I am playing mostly peaceful, I will go for it, and if I miss it, use the gold to buy a Worker.

 

[Lanijon]

I've seen tons of confusion and guesses about the various growth bonuses for years, but never any conclusive answers or proof, so I tested them myself (with the kind assistance of IGE).

I can confirm that Temple of Artemis does in fact multiply your total food, not just your leftovers:

Spoiler :

It also works in other cities:

Spoiler :

Fertility Rites, however, only multiplies your surplus food:

Spoiler :

As does Swords into Plowshares:

Spoiler :

And Landed Elite:

Spoiler :

I tried testing the Tradition finisher as well, but it appears to be broken. It's supposed to give a 15% growth boost to all cities, but the only bonus I was getting was from Landed Elite. I even advanced a turn in case it needed to kick in, but no dice. Not sure if it was an IGE-related problem.

Spoiler :

WLTKD also multiplies surplus:

Spoiler :

And just for completion's sake (at least I think this is complete.. well, aside from Floating Gardens), so does the unhappiness penalty:

Spoiler :

Finally, to go back to the Temple of Artemis, the range production bonus only applies to that city:

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Overall, ToA is a far better wonder than most give it credit for, but I'd have to agree that it's probably not worth the opportunity cost.

 

[LeeS]

Yes indeed the effect is Global, as ThorzHammerz mentioned, and Lanijon's screen-caps demonstrate, and is a modification to total food 'generated' each turn in each city.

• The difference between the Temple of Artemis affect and the various policy or belief effects Lanijon showed is in the game XML-Table that is being used to give the 'global' effect for food from the Temple of Artemis.
• The Ranged Unit production modifier comes from an XML-table where there is no 'Global' version of the table.
• The relevant bit of code for the food thing is:
  
  Spoiler :

  <Building_GlobalYieldModifiers>
  	<Row>
  		<BuildingType>BUILDING_TEMPLE_ARTEMIS</BuildingType>
  		<YieldType>YIELD_FOOD</YieldType>
  		<Yield>10</Yield>
  	</Row>
  </Building_GlobalYieldModifiers>

  Building_GlobalYieldModifiers always affect every city everywhere on the map for the Empire that constructs the specified building, and are always a direct % change to each city's yield of the type specified. So far as the XML-code is concerned there is no difference between a 'Wonder' and a 'Building'.
  
  In none of the expansion-specific XML-files that might have alterred this is there any change, unlike, for example, the way that Statue of Zeus is altered in BNW.

Unfortunately complete trust in the game's civilopedia is a non-starter because there are a few places where Firaxis changed functional code in the Expansions but did not actually change the Civilopedia from it's Vanilla text.

 

[ThorHammerz]

Unfortunately complete trust in the game's civilopedia is a non-starter because there are a few places where Firaxis changed functional code in the Expansions but did not actually change the Civilopedia from it's Vanilla text.

And let's not forget to mention that Firaxis sometimes uses similar (but different) terms interchangeably for functionally different concepts/objects in various places (e.g. growth vs. food, improvements & routes, etc).