Who builds Temple of Artemis?

[phillipwyllie]

...I tried testing the Tradition finisher as well, but it appears to be broken. It's supposed to give a 15% growth boost to all cities, but the only bonus I was getting was from Landed Elite. I even advanced a turn in case it needed to kick in, but no dice. Not sure if it was an IGE-related problem...

I believe it's a UI display issue which EUI seems to fix as this screenshot shows.

 

[HeliosDisciple]

Also, playing with a civ with a ranged UU (China or England, for example)

Seems like a no-brainer for Egypt to go for it, then.

 

[dasaard200]

Aztecs and Temple of Artemis + Hanging Gardens + Honor =YUM !!

Throw in Raging Barbs and go to town . For extra action/frustration, add "Barb. Unlimited XP", "Barb. Spawn Increase", and "Caravansary Trade Routes" mods; with world age of 3 billion years .

 

[reddishrecue]

If temple of artemis had to rely on a opener then that would kill its whatever.

 

[Lanijon]

I believe it's a UI display issue which EUI seems to fix as this screenshot shows.

Well I guess the finisher itself isn't broken then, so that's good. I don't really think it was a display issue though since the raw numbers and the turns until growth didn't change either. Also I had EUI active in my shots as well (though I've deleted a few parts, so maybe I threw out the relevant edit). I'm guessing it was a weird issue with adopting it through IGE, or perhaps the bonus doesn't kick in until you're at a certain pop or certain era/year/turn or something. I don't know nearly enough about the code to say for sure.

 

[LeeS]

Tradition Finisher is not broken:

Spoiler :

I used IGE to give myself a boat-load of Culture so that I could select all the Policies in Tradition. I don't use EUI, so there's no effect one way or another re Tradition Finisher and EUI.

Test Method I think was the issue for Lanijon.

 

[CraigMak]

Artemis is one of the strongest wonders in the game. +10% growth FOR ALL CITIES which applies to total food coming in is good enough on its own. Not only that but it gives you +15% production of ranged units which is also good on its own accord. This wonder is great. Definitely one to build if you have the time.

I myself wouldn't rush ANY wonder in the early game but if this one is still available and I have nothing important to build I'm definitely taking a shot at it.

 

[Astennu]

I build Temple of Artemis in every game at Immortal Level. The bonuses, plus the guaranteed Great Engineer to build Leaning Tower or Sistine Chapel (usually both) is just too much to pass up on. Even when starting next to expansionist neighbours I have still incorporated into my playstyle. The early setback is well worth the rewards. I think I'm actually addicted to building it.

PS I don't bother trying to build it on Deity since it is impossible most of the time.

 

[Acken]

Who builds Temple of Artemis?

It's one of the best wonder in the game so a good number of people

 

[reddishrecue]

Tradition Finisher is not broken:

Spoiler :

I used IGE to give myself a boat-load of Culture so that I could select all the Policies in Tradition. I don't use EUI, so there's no effect one way or another re Tradition Finisher and EUI.

Test Method I think was the issue for Lanijon.

It isn't but what I was saying is that you don't need a tradition opener to build toa.

 

[Sessy]

At that tech level I think ToA is a wonder that solidifies the foundation of your empire. The fact that it boosts total food and not surplus is what makes it a relevant bonus throughout the game, because your total food is always going to grow regardless of the population size unless all your citizens are working mines. If you compare that with other food bonuses that only modify your surplus food, it's never as good as ToA. HG is a wonder a lot of people like, but +6 food in the cap is only good for the early game and falls off later on as you get trade routes up.

The 10% ranged training bonus is also nice for the early game in case you need to rush someone. Getting your bows out a turn or two early is always good.

 

[BruinBound]

The 10% ranged training bonus is also nice for the early game in case you need to rush someone. Getting your bows out a turn or two early is always good.

Unless my source is outdated, TofA gives a 15% bonus to building a ranged unit.

Temple of Artemis: 185
Archer: 40
Archer w/ TofA: 34

You are only saving 6 per archer, which means you need to build 31 archers for it to be optimal to use TofA for a rush rather than just using all that production for units... seems like not the best usage of TofA

I actually hope I screwed up somewhere, because that is pretty ridiculous.

 

[Acken]

Production bonus are almost always long term plans. Making ToA before an archer/CB rush is non sense.

Regarding previous post your maths look wrong since you seem to have associated a 15% bonus to production to a 15% cost reduction doing 34 = 0.85 * 40. But to show you why it doesn't work say the bonus is 100% ?

A way to view it is that the base production P has to be big enough to equal the ToA cost 185 so that P * 0.15 = 185. This is only if ToA itself has no bonus to production otherwise this has to be factored in to find how much base production got into ToA. P = 1233. This is base production spent doing ranged units. You can then divide this numbers however you want. If you spend it all on archers (with only the ToA prod bonus) then you'll have (1233*1.15)/40 = 35 archers.
Or in a similar way to what you did, the cost reduction for an archer is actually 40 - 40/1.15 = 5.22. Then 185/5.22 = 35. You can easily verify that 185/0.15*1.15/40 = 185 / (40 - 40/1.15) because 185 / (40 - 40/1.15) = 185 / 40 / (1 - 1/1.15) = 185 / 40 / (0.15 / 1.15 ) = 185 / 40 / 0.15 * 1.15

 

[BruinBound]

Ah you are right, my thinking and equation is wrong. But we can settle on some ridiculous number greater than 30.

 

[Sessy]

I think the assumption you're basing this on is not very logical. If you actually need to rush people with archers, then you won't built ToA. Building this wonder is almost always for the growth bonus when you have a builder plan in mind, but if the situation changes and you're forced into war later, this wonder would help you a bit more in military.

If your 15% of total hammers on ranged units with ToA bonus will exceed 185, it's a win on paper, but I don't think it's worth it with only that bonus because early hammers are more valuable

 

[HorseshoeHermit]

Temple is the most magnificent conundrum of a wonder in the game. It unlocks at a level 1 tech, so anybody could get it from the very first, but everyone knows this.

And its benefit is universal and extremely strong, so everyone knows everyone knows they want it. But of course it's not as good as making settlers or actual archers for a while.

So it's like at what point does someone think that they can actually get it before everyone else who , SURELY, are also trying to build it.

In my experience, this guy isn't built until the medieval era between Humans. But I have not observed a huge number of games (but my sample is at least random).

 

[BruinBound]

The 10% ranged training bonus is also nice for the early game in case you need to rush someone. Getting your bows out a turn or two early is always good.

I think the assumption you're basing this on is not very logical. If you actually need to rush people with archers, then you won't built ToA.

It was your assumption!

I love TofA but for the food bonuses. The point I was making is that the extra production for ranged units is hardly noticable, and definitely not worth it for an early rush (which you claimed, not me). Perhaps you meant rushing composites rather than archers, but I find you usually need to build most of them as archers and upgrade if you want to hit the proper window for a CB rush. Either way I can't see how this wonder would be much of a benefit over hard-building for any type of rush.

 

[radster_X]

Perfect wonder for the Incas on TSL. Cusco is surrounded by hills and mountains and so doesn't provide much food in the early game, plus the unique unit the slinger becomes obsolete pretty quickly but you keep the promotion so build the temple and spam build those slingers!

 

[megabearsfan]

If I'm playing as India, then Artemis is definitely number 1 on my wonder priority list!

And don't neglect the ranged unit buff. It's also great for civs like Egypt, India, Huns, Mongolians, Arabia, and even England and China that all have powerful ranged units.

 

[reddishrecue]

Its too bad that you have to have the ancient wonders dlc to get it to work though.