Who builds Temple of Artemis?

[themathmajician]

Unless my source is outdated, TofA gives a 15% bonus to building a ranged unit.

Temple of Artemis: 185
Archer: 40
Archer w/ TofA: 34

You are only saving 6 per archer, which means you need to build 31 archers for it to be optimal to use TofA for a rush rather than just using all that production for units... seems like not the best usage of TofA

I actually hope I screwed up somewhere, because that is pretty ridiculous.

That's probably because archers are dirt cheap. If you built composites or crossbows then the bonus would be much greater.

 

[phillipwyllie]

That's probably because archers are dirt cheap. If you built composites or crossbows then the bonus would be much greater.

It wouldn't. The +%15 bonus is applied to the base hammer yield, regardless of the hammer cost of the ranged unit being produced. Needless to say ToA is a wonder you wont regret getting.

 

[ThorHammerz]

Fairly sure most people build it with the intention of getting it for the Food % modifier (and maybe the GE point? ).... the %production on archery units is icing on the cake .

 

[joncnunn]

I would agree with the above, if all you were thinking of is the archery production bonus, it doesn't pay for itself compared to skipping the wonder and just building the archers.

So what it does do is slightly decrease the turn cost reaching X # of archers.

 

[LeeS]

Plus since the unit production buff is based on Unit Combat Type, and the wonder never expires, it is not just Archers, Comp Bowmen, or Crossbowmen that are affected.

Chariot Archers, Gatling Guns, Machine Guns, and Bazookas all share the same UNITCOMBAT_ARCHER so are also affected.

Granted, by the time you can build Gatling Guns, Machine Guns, and Bazookas the 15% increase in production speed might be darn near invisible in your core cities (which is where you would have built ToA anyway), and you might very well decide you have better things to build, like Airplanes, once you can, or Tanks, or Artillery....or other wonders you might now have a decent chance to grab before the AI

 

[johnnybaseball]

I don't have this DLC, but based on what I'm reading, the ranged production bonus seems more useful for defense, in the early segment while you're building it and others are preparing for war. Maybe it helps you build a few archers quickly enough to allow you to defend.

 

[Bimblecrumbs]

I can only see the 15% bonus to archer units being useful in MP games where you might have to spam chariots/composites/xbows in an extended war.

In SP games I'd never build more than 10 for an assault.

 

[ShakaKhan]

My 2 cents:

Since science is almost exclusively (there are some exceptions) linked to population, and science is the end-all/be-all "power source" for your civilization regardless of your motives (the biggest flaw of this game), this wonder has one of the most prominent effects on the game-play experience, even more so as it comes so early in a game of exponential growth. Other events/tactics/choices that have similar impacts are:
-getting 3+ free techs from huts.
-selecting Poland, Babylon, or Maya
-selecting Isabella and being first to find GBRX2
-getting Great Library, slinging Philo and getting NC before turn 55.
-reducing your game difficulty by a level or 2

Of those, the 1st is game-breaking luck (why I play w/o huts), the 2nd and 3rd are unbalanced game elements. Only the 4th is a strategic choice, although it's usually not an option on any level higher than Prince (well, about 50/50 shot on King, but I digress.) The difference between ToA and GL-slinging Philo is that the former is almost always an option up to and including Emperor level and about 70% likely on immortal. The optimistic view of this is that it's a great strategic choice that's very likely to pay off; the pessimistic view is that it's an unbalanced game element, much like worker-stealing and should be avoided.

Also, my experience at Deity level (admittedly limited; only 4 attempts but all achieving a victory condition) differs from that of a previous post regarding this wonder. I agree that the AI seems to overlook the importance of this wonder at all levels up to and including immortal, but not at deity. I've found that the AI seem to each want to achieve at least one wonder, with one or two civs hording as many as they can. Of my 4 deity games, this wonder went on turn 26, turn 29, turn 34, and turn 39 - all standard game speed. Furthermore, if all your efforts go to achieving this wonder (things like researching archery before pottery, which at deity means you're probably skipping religion entirely) and everything goes great with game settings (like having at least 3 tiles that are F+P=3 accessible and getting an early worker steal) you're going to finish the wonder between turn 33 and turn 37. So judging from my previous experience (which, again, is limited, and keep in mind the universal rule of advertising - "results may vary"), there's about a 25% chance of success IF all the variables work to your favor.

 

[reddishrecue]

My 2 cents:

Since science is almost exclusively (there are some exceptions) linked to population, and science is the end-all/be-all "power source" for your civilization regardless of your motives (the biggest flaw of this game), this wonder has one of the most prominent effects on the game-play experience, even more so as it comes so early in a game of exponential growth. Other events/tactics/choices that have similar impacts are:
-getting 3+ free techs from huts.
-selecting Poland, Babylon, or Maya
-selecting Isabella and being first to find GBRX2
-getting Great Library, slinging Philo and getting NC before turn 55.
-reducing your game difficulty by a level or 2

Of those, the 1st is game-breaking luck (why I play w/o huts), the 2nd and 3rd are unbalanced game elements. Only the 4th is a strategic choice, although it's usually not an option on any level higher than Prince (well, about 50/50 shot on King, but I digress.) The difference between ToA and GL-slinging Philo is that the former is almost always an option up to and including Emperor level and about 70% likely on immortal. The optimistic view of this is that it's a great strategic choice that's very likely to pay off; the pessimistic view is that it's an unbalanced game element, much like worker-stealing and should be avoided.

Also, my experience at Deity level (admittedly limited; only 4 attempts but all achieving a victory condition) differs from that of a previous post regarding this wonder. I agree that the AI seems to overlook the importance of this wonder at all levels up to and including immortal, but not at deity. I've found that the AI seem to each want to achieve at least one wonder, with one or two civs hording as many as they can. Of my 4 deity games, this wonder went on turn 26, turn 29, turn 34, and turn 39 - all standard game speed. Furthermore, if all your efforts go to achieving this wonder (things like researching archery before pottery, which at deity means you're probably skipping religion entirely) and everything goes great with game settings (like having at least 3 tiles that are F+P=3 accessible and getting an early worker steal) you're going to finish the wonder between turn 33 and turn 37. So judging from my previous experience (which, again, is limited, and keep in mind the universal rule of advertising - "results may vary"), there's about a 25% chance of success IF all the variables work to your favor.

I agree, deity levels have very poor odds to get toa built because the AI will quickly take most wonders at this level. One of the exceptions to this however could be wonders that get unlocked by social policy openers such as the porcelain tower or the great mosque of djenne even since civilizations at this level have a habit of leaving a social policy untouched.

 

[claudiupb]

A good synergy would be with India. Since you are penalized on early expansion, you could build ToA in capital and then just build 5-6 elephants. The 15% production bonus saves at least a turn for each elephant provided you have at least 10 production in capital. War Elephants are very strong if you compare them with CBs, the only minus being the upgrade path.

In the end you can make up the delayed expansion by conquest. Capturing 2 capitals will give you a lot more unique luxuries (which most likely are already improved) and will let you build or conquer other cities as well. In the end you wind up with at least a 6 city empire that will let you pursue any VC you want.

Of course this is very situational and requires having at least 2 AI's close enough. If you are lucky enough and conquer them before meeting other civs you will not get such a big warmonger hate.

 

[CraigMak]

I can only see the 15% bonus to archer units being useful in MP games where you might have to spam chariots/composites/xbows in an extended war.

In SP games I'd never build more than 10 for an assault.

Yes, it's very strong in MP. Especially if you intend to spam out xbows later in the game. It's great with egypt, attila and Gandhi as well. Allowing you to grow well while spamming out your UU.

In team games it is definitely one of the best wonders in the game since team games consist largely of ranged unit spamming.

 

[reddishrecue]

A good synergy would be with India. Since you are penalized on early expansion, you could build ToA in capital and then just build 5-6 elephants. The 15% production bonus saves at least a turn for each elephant provided you have at least 10 production in capital. War Elephants are very strong if you compare them with CBs, the only minus being the upgrade path.

In the end you can make up the delayed expansion by conquest. Capturing 2 capitals will give you a lot more unique luxuries (which most likely are already improved) and will let you build or conquer other cities as well. In the end you wind up with at least a 6 city empire that will let you pursue any VC you want.

Of course this is very situational and requires having at least 2 AI's close enough. If you are lucky enough and conquer them before meeting other civs you will not get such a big warmonger hate.

You have to tech to xbows to get the most effect out of archery units because cbows dont always get to destroy units that well like xbows can.

 

[claudiupb]

Yes, but CB rushes are still viable, and you can get a capital, or two, out of this. With India, since the War Elephant in slightly stronger, slightly cheaper, 50% faster, and comes earlier than a CB it is a viable option. ToA will of course delay your War Elephant spam, but it will still be faster than a CB spam (without having to tech Construction). As I said it's very situational, you need at least one close weak neighbor to attack.

 

[reddishrecue]

Yes, but CB rushes are still viable, and you can get a capital, or two, out of this. With India, since the War Elephant in slightly stronger, slightly cheaper, 50% faster, and comes earlier than a CB it is a viable option. ToA will of course delay your War Elephant spam, but it will still be faster than a CB spam (without having to tech Construction). As I said it's very situational, you need at least one close weak neighbor to attack.

Right, war elephants could do better than cbows for sure but not better than xbows.