Why ever pick Ancestral Hall over Warlord's Throne

I always pick

  • Ancestral Hall

    Votes: 70 72.2%

  • Warlords Throne

    Votes: 9 9.3%

  • The third choice

    Votes: 18 18.6%
  • Total voters
    97
tedhebert said:
@Zdarg , this exactly !!! So... in theory you want the gov plaza in the same city as Magnus and have THAT city pump out setllers full time for a certain number of turns

EDIT : Ninja'd by @WillowBrook
Click to expand...

Sure, but now you're delaying your Settlers until after you've built the Government Plaza, research Political Philosophy, and built the Ancestral Hall. That's a long time to wait. Besides, you might not want the Government Plaza in one of your first 2-3 cities. Often, you can make better use of it elsewhere.

I just don't see AH working for anything but really large maps where you might continue settling until turn 150 or so. And even then, you're probably generating Settlers from more than one city, so while you'll still get a bunch of free Builders, you'll only get the 50% build cost reduction on some of your Settlers. Meh.
 
Kwami said:
Sure, but now you're delaying your Settlers until after you've built the Government Plaza, research Political Philosophy, and built the Ancestral Hall. That's a long time to wait. Besides, you might not want the Government Plaza in one of your first 2-3 cities. Often, you can make better use of it elsewhere.

I just don't see AH working for anything but really large maps where you might continue settling until turn 150 or so. And even then, you're probably generating Settlers from more than one city, so while you'll still get a bunch of free Builders, you'll only get the 50% build cost reduction on some of your Settlers. Meh.
Click to expand...

As was mentioned before... this is very much related to size of map and speed of game... if you,re playing online speed on small map, this affirmation is very true... if you're playing normal speed on huge map, less so...

I will usually pump out 2 or 3 settlers before I had the time to get to ancestral hall, yes... but there's so much to do, build in the beginning that you DO get AH in time for most of your settlers if you're not playing domination all the way... even if you got 2-3 settlers out of 15-20 before getting AH, it's not that big a deal

EDIT AND DISCLAIMER: Just for the record, I am NOT a super power player that wins in 130 turns... I'm more of a 250-325 turns winner. I llke to build a lot, not to be incredibly efficient ;-)
 
The only reason why i wouldn't pick the Ancestral Hall is the few times when my fat little fingers miss the button and build the Audience Chamber instead.
 
Seeing as I tend to carpet bomb the map with cities in most of my games, the hall is most of the time the best choice. Those builders are a crazy boost. chop chop improve improve improve, this city is set for twenty turns :)
 
leandrombraz said:
Seems like most people here aren't warmongers, based on how much people prefer the Ancestral Hall. Even "the third choice" got more votes than the Warlord's throne.
Click to expand...

I think most of us WILL warmonger a little during ancient and classical ages... I normally pick up a close neighbor to target that is too close for comfort for me, or that will be a pain in the backside for a closeby city-state, or just forward settled me too much, but it's very rare
that I go all out Domination, so 4-5 cities taken is generally the most, and I will build the rest. I think most players here are like this, but the min/maxers are not of course because this is not an efficient or rapid way to play ;-)
 
Lord Lakely said:
The only reason why i wouldn't pick the Ancestral Hall is the few times when my fat little fingers miss the button and build the Audience Chamber instead.
Click to expand...

I've mistakenly hit Audience Chamber before when I meant to hit Ancestral Hall. Really, they should have picked a different name...having two of them start with the letter A has caused me to make this mistake more than once.
 
tedhebert said:
I think most of us WILL warmonger a little during ancient and classical ages... I normally pick up a close neighbor to target that is too close for comfort for me, or that will be a pain in the backside for a closeby city-state, or just forward settled me too much, but it's very rare
that I go all out Domination, so 4-5 cities taken is generally the most, and I will build the rest. I think most players here are like this, but the min/maxers are not of course because this is not an efficient or rapid way to play ;-)
Click to expand...

I usually conquer 1-2 cities because there isn't enough room to expand. I always strive to avoid conquering, unless going for domination and even then I avoid eliminating other Civs, unless loyalty do the job despite my best efforts to leave each Civ with enough cities to stay in the game.
 
I frankly go with the A.Hall, Faith Buy Golden Age and use that to flood the world with my cities
 
Two Things:

I did not realize that Warlord's Throne DIDNT activate with "freeing" or "liberating a city state." I remember Warlords worked for me when I took back a free city?

Also does it stack with John Curtain? and Emergencies when you liberate city states.

Taking into account that builders scale and as China or Mr./Mrs. Pyramids you get automatically 4 charge builders - maybe Ancestral Hall is a must pick for those civs. Definitely for Russia since you get all the tiles you need to work.

Does it stack with Australia's bonus? and city state conquering? In this version I am often building 10+ cities. I feel as if its worth it then.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I’m not a huge fan of the T1 Plaza Buildings anyway.

I really disliked the whole Gov Plaza and T1 Buildings things because they all seemed so bland.

It’s taken ages, but I’ve grown the like the Gov Plaza much more once I realised I didn’t actually have to build it without fail in the middle of my empire and spam districts around it. These days I just put it down adjacent to my City Centre and use it to get a Campus or Theatre Square up to +3 or buff a later IZ. You know, the Plaza is actually kinda cool. It even has a Wonder!

I liked the Ancestral Hall much more once I realised the +50% Settler bonus is only in one City. That’s makes it much more interesting, because you have to consider where to put it very carefully to maximise its utility. The timing is also awkward, but I kinda like that - you have to really balance when you’re building it and how much you get out of it.

You also get more value out of AH if you’re still settling Cities later in the game, maybe with Monumentality or Hic Sunc Draconis. That can be pretty fun, with the builder letting you chop in districts etc. Not optimal, but fun.

I like that the Audience Chamber provides a “Tall” mechanic, but I find the way it does it is quite boring. Wasn’t it even nerfed a little in one patch? I’m not really sure what would make the AC more interesting. I guess it’s fine as is, but I feel like it’s missing something.

I don’t know if I like the Warlord’s throne at all. I don’t like the bonus applies to all Cities, I guess. It’s obviously a powerful bonus, but it just doesn’t ... eh, interest me. It feels like the wrong bonus for a building to have - it’s more something that would make more sense as a pantheon (which would be op), government or cultural ability. I think it maybe WT needs a rethink, but perhaps the issue is that I just haven’t played with it enough.
 
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GKShaman said:
Two Things:

I did not realize that Warlord's Throne DIDNT activate with "freeing" or "liberating a city state." I remember Warlords worked for me when I took back a free city?

Also does it stack with John Curtain? and Emergencies when you liberate city states.

Taking into account that builders scale and as China or Mr./Mrs. Pyramids you get automatically 4 charge builders - maybe Ancestral Hall is a must pick for those civs. Definitely for Russia since you get all the tiles you need to work.

Does it stack with Australia's bonus? and city state conquering? In this version I am often building 10+ cities. I feel as if its worth it then.
Click to expand...

It stacks, so as Australia you gain +120%, with this some of my cities are even able to build lasers in 1 turn.

However you need to liberate a city in the past 10 turns and capture and hold another city in the past 5 turns to activate both bonuses.
 
I find the timing for the Ancestral Hall is .....not *quite* that big of an issue if you do a Pingala Culture rush.

1. Build two cities
2. Spam monuments
3. Get Pingala and Connoisseur
5. Do the top half of the Civics tree first on your way to rushing Political Philosophy.
6. Time the Government Plaza to complete right before you get Political Philosophy (usually around turn 50)
7. Use the 2nd two Governor promotions to get Magnus and his Provision promotion
8. Build the Ancestral Hall
9. Spam Settlers and get free builders. Usually around turn 60. Bonus points for doing this with Serfdom, Monumentality (buying Settlers w/ Faith is strong), and/or the Pyramids

The timings are definitely tight, and if you slack off the AI will take all your empty land. I don't necessarily always wait for, say Feudalism unless it makes sense - .again, you snooze on open land, you lose. But if you pull it off and manage to get 10-12 cities, you've basically won right there. You'd definitely want to do something else if you are crowded in close with several AI (like take the Throne) or a lot of useless or impassable land (Audience Chamber).
 
So, you only have two cities on turn 60? That's crazy. You should probably have at least five cities. Waiting on AH doesn't seem like a good strategy unless you're playing giant maps or slow games.
 
Ancestral Hall used to be much better when early Culture wasn't so scarce, several expansions and patches ago. You could get it up and running then get 6-10 free Builders in the Classical as you're planting Settlers. Sometimes you wouldn't even have to delay that much to get Feudalism and Pyramids and be spawning 6 use builders with each settlement. Now you have get some fortunate Tribal Villages or City States that push Political Philosophy way early to make it really exceptional, or it gets finished after you've done most of your settling.

If you're going to be doing an extended campaign of conquest, Warlord's Throne is just too many hammers to pass up.

Audience Chamber? Meh, but maybe I should give it a try. I do sometimes have trouble hitting 10 pop with the right timing for the Inspiration for Civil Service.
 
Kwami said:
So, you only have two cities on turn 60? That's crazy. You should probably have at least five cities. Waiting on AH doesn't seem like a good strategy unless you're playing giant maps or slow games.
Click to expand...

For reference, I almost always play on Emperor difficulty, Standard speed and size, and Continents maps. I don't do this strategy every time, just when I have a fair amount of space to expand into. If I'm crowded in I'll probably go for the Throne and tear up the AI's cities instead. Smart placement of your second city can help as well.

Casualty of war said:
Ancestral Hall used to be much better when early Culture wasn't so scarce, several expansions and patches ago. You could get it up and running then get 6-10 free Builders in the Classical as you're planting Settlers. Sometimes you wouldn't even have to delay that much to get Feudalism and Pyramids and be spawning 6 use builders with each settlement. Now you have get some fortunate Tribal Villages or City States that push Political Philosophy way early to make it really exceptional, or it gets finished after you've done most of your settling.

If you're going to be doing an extended campaign of conquest, Warlord's Throne is just too many hammers to pass up.

Audience Chamber? Meh, but maybe I should give it a try. I do sometimes have trouble hitting 10 pop with the right timing for the Inspiration for Civil Service.
Click to expand...

I don't recall any nerfs to early game Culture but I could be wrong. Between Inspirations, choosing Pingala + Connoisseur first, and focusing on Culture early, it isn't too hard to get Political Philosophy fairly early (approximately turn 50).
 
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