Why isn't Culture considered as important as Science?

[Mount Suribachi]

Something that has become apparent to me as I've gone up through the levels is just how important culture is in this game. Every guide and piece of advice you read talks about how Science is king, BPT etc etc.

And yet, I've found that without culture, you're a dead duck. You can have all the science in the world, but if you ain't regularly racking up the SP's, you're going to fall behind.

Why is this? Everyone talks about how Poland is OP because they get 7 free SP's, but apart from that, no-one ever seems to talk about culture/SP's.

 

[danaphanous]

I think it's just that cultural acquisition is more passive and in the background. You get your monuments up, maybe make a few more buildings as you need them for works, run artist and writer guilds and it takes care of itself. World's fair is also important and there actually is quite a bit of advice and guides on talking about how to use it. Also being extra fast isn't as helpful as high science as your policy costs go up too. Being too fast can actually mean a LATER rationalism opener since you can't open it till the renaissance, and all most players really care about in the beginning is finishing your starter tree and then transitioning to rationalism.

Science rate on the other hand can be dramatically improved upon as you get better at the game with huge game results. I think most experienced players don't talk about culture as much because there's just less to talk about. I agree your game will go badly if you don't take care of culture but there's just less complexity to it.

 

[Ryika]

I think it's well known and strongly emphasized that you should build and fill the Guilds ASAP, and that you should ally cultural City States if possible, other than that... what can you really do to increase your culture throughout most of the game? Not much.

It's different with Science. You literally build your whole empire around generating as much as possible, and in the end Policies are just one of the things that helps you do exactly that. On their own policies are meaningless and lead you nowhere - that's why the mantra is "Science is king".

 

[poxpower]

There's just no source of culture in the game that compares to the sources of science.
If there were some culture buildings that actually boosted culture in a meaningful way, then culture could be an alternate path.

For instance, if amphitheater was +3 culture and 1 great writer slot, then it might start to sound reasonable to want one, same if opera house was +3 and +1 musician slot.
But +1 culture is just laughable, especially compared to a monument, a building twice as good that costs 20% as much.

As it stands the only use for culture buildings is unlocking hermitage in your capital, which does give you a substantial boost at the cost of A LOT of hammers empire-wide, which is also an all-or-nothing deal because if one city doesn't have an opera house, it's mostly all for nothing since you can't get hermitage... So..yeah

 

[Volcanon]

If you want culture focus, go full exploration and dig up as many relics as you can, then also do that one where you get art and stuff. You'll need a wide empire because otherwise you'll run out of slots. With hidden sites you will start getting great writing works too to fill up all of your empty amphitheaters.

Focus on the wonders that give percentage increases in culture, then win off tourism. It's sub-optimal (because the optimal thing to do is go heavy science, as always, to force your way to Internet and hotels), but it's not impossible to win this way.

 

[Libertyforall]

If you are ahead in tech than you can build wonders that give lots of culture and great work slots. Science is important if you want to produce lots culture or if you are going for a culture win.

 

[Convict]

However isn't there is a science bonus from trade routes where you have a cultural advantage over the AI? Not a hug one I admit.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

I think some of you guys are missing the point. I'm not talking about culture for a culture victory, I'm talking about the need for culture to generate social policies.

 

[Iamteehee]

However isn't there is a science bonus from trade routes where you have a cultural advantage over the AI? Not a hug one I admit.

It's a very insignificant amount, +1/2/3/4 for familiar/popular/influential/dominant. It doesn't scale with science multipliers and doesn't affect GS bulbs either.

 

[Ryika]

I think some of you guys are missing the point. I'm not talking about culture for a culture victory, I'm talking about the need for culture to generate social policies.

So aside from the things I already mentioned... what "methods" of culture generation do you think are currently not valued enough?

 

[Matthew.]

The same reasons science is king: because you need science to increase culture.

You need science to reach guild techs to work culture slots. You need science to get economy techs which allow you to buy out culture CS alliances. You need science to get spies to keep those same CS alliances.

Same thing with military, you need science to hit certain timings (Xbows, artillery, frigates, etc.).

Science always comes first.

Now you may ask, "okay, but then why isn't culture an immediate second?" but the answer is that it is by default. Most of the science techs are paired closely with culture. You want Civil Service and Education ASAP? You pick up writing guild and amphitheatre on the way. You want to break into Renaissance ASAP for Rationalism? Hey, it also gives you opera houses and musicians guild.

 

[Favorius]

Because science means death or life. Noone wants to face tanks with spears.
Culture is there for improving your standing among nations.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

So aside from the things I already mentioned... what "methods" of culture generation do you think are currently not valued enough?

You were one of the ones who did get my point. It's not about the methods, it's about how, in my experience, the need to keep up in SP's is almost as important as the need to keep up in tech.

Each SP is, in effect, a mini wonder (in some cases a mega wonder) with the impact they have on your game.

 

[poxpower]

Each SP is, in effect, a mini wonder (in some cases a mega wonder) with the impact they have on your game.

The problem is that you only need to get so many policies.
There's only a few excellent policies that you need to rush to, and then the rest is just sad filler garbage.

 

[dasaard200]

Phase 1 .
Science is that clown who hits you in the face with an iron gauntlet; Culture is that little street urchin who picks your pocket, and goes on to be a showman; that will go into politics to get his theater built .

While it is easier to do early culture buildings in a small, tall Realm {National Wonders, et al}; and then toss out 'filler' cities to expand and/or secure borders, a good Religion adds culture with Pantheons and R.Buildings which come from Beliefs [Cathedrals, Mosques, Pagodas, etc.] .

Phase 2 .
As you shift from tall to wide, in RLife, several Civs dropped Ampitheaters like mustard seeds, hoping to overawe the locals and barbs, to become used to a real Civ and join it (Greece and Rome, others) . More cities mean more cultural spots to develop, which yields more culture produced, getting SPs faster . Of course you'll have to slip in these buildings between a city's regular builds : granary, walls, barracks, etc., but you'll have time to do this while your CORE cities pump out units to defend these 'fillers'.

Phase 3 . CSs and AIs .
Satisfy CS quests, loot AIs . Cultural and Religious CSs should be Allied ASAP for obvious benefits (+culture, +faith PER TURN) . As the tech tree unfolds, and buildings unlock, a snowball can be made .

 

[apocalypse105]

it is as important if you dont have a lot of culture you dont have a lot of social policies that can give you happiness or bonusses and it will slow you down.

not to mention culture great works are necessairy for not getting a revolt and getting massive amount of unhappiness

 

[beetle]

Culture, unlocking policies, is good for fun play. But your science game makes the difference between winning and loosing, if you are playing at a difficulty level that is challenging for you.

 

[nebaciv]

I find on immortal that if I try to boost my culture output with buildings in the early-mid game I fall way, way behind in research and can never recover. But it's true that a shoddy culture output is really constrictive, so I do one of two things:
1. Switch my attention from science to culture buildings/wonders around the time I get my public schools up.
2. Go on the offensive and capture the strongest cultural cities of my foes haha.