Why The New Leaders?

[True_Candyman]

I think that due to the rules they've set, it's very likely to rule him out. Your solution comes with many other problems and feels like an unnecessary duct-taping over something that's not really a problem, imo. There are plenty of leaders with interesting personalities without repeated capitals, no need to make crazy rules to fit one that has.

I'd literally use your exact arguments the other way Guess we'll find out sooner or later and personally I'm not all that fussed which way they end up going!

 

[Zaarin]

I think the key word here is "viable". Which of those would lend to an interesting ability and personality?

Well haha yeah, we have tons of names of Sumerian kings, but do we really know enough about any of them to make a good Civ leader? The only two people on that list with any modern fame at all are Sargon of Akkad (who is not really Sumerian) and Gilgamesh. It doesn't seem like Egypt where there are a number of pharaohs whose actions and policies we know in some detail.

A good handful at least. For starters, we can rule out Sargon of Akkad, who was Akkadian, or Babylonian (in the broad sense, though he antedates the rise of Babylon). I'd prefer to rule out Gilgamesh simply because nearly everything we know about him comes from a Babylonian epic. I think Ur-Nammu, Shulgi, Gudea, or Kubaba (the alewife who the chroniclers say was chosen by the gods to be queen) would all be great choices. It's worth remembering that the Sumerians were immaculate record keepers, and thousands of clay tablets have survived. Civ6's "let's make stuff up" approach to the Sumerians is so unfortunate given just how much we know about the Sumerians, their culture, and their rulers.

 

[ExemplarVoss]

Well, Charlemagne was NOT crowned "Holy Roman Emperor" but "Emperor of the Romans", the appelation "Holy Roman Emperor" is sometimes given to Charlemagne by modern historians though. The actual first Holy Roman Emperor was Otto I. In fact, you could argue that he revived the Roman Empire for a short time. His empire also included Rome itself.

Also the Holy Roman Emperor was seen as a direct continuation of the Roman Empire, as in the Roman Empire that was also Holy (meaning Catholic).

Well... if by 'seen as' you mean 'they said so,' then sure. It was more a piece of rhetorical hubris to prop up their legitimacy and authority. It worked well for Otto, but for much of its existence it was a pretty hollow shell that was often little more than a useful prop for the Electors.

 

[VermelhoRed]

A good handful at least. For starters, we can rule out Sargon of Akkad, who was Akkadian, or Babylonian (in the broad sense, though he antedates the rise of Babylon). I'd prefer to rule out Gilgamesh simply because nearly everything we know about him comes from a Babylonian epic. I think Ur-Nammu, Shulgi, Gudea, or Kubaba (the alewife who the chroniclers say was chosen by the gods to be queen) would all be great choices. It's worth remembering that the Sumerians were immaculate record keepers, and thousands of clay tablets have survived. Civ6's "let's make stuff up" approach to the Sumerians is so unfortunate given just how much we know about the Sumerians, their culture, and their rulers.

Could you make up an ability and an agenda for those? I'm almost convinced...

 

[Zaarin]

Could you make up an ability and an agenda for those? I'm almost convinced...

Sure. Give me a few minutes...

SUMER
Unique Ability: Cuneiform: Holy Sites provide +1 science, Campuses provide +1 faith; palace has +1 slot for great work of writing.
Unique Unit: War Cart: Per existing UU.
Unique Improvement: Ziggurat: Replaces Temple, provides +1 culture in addition to the normal faith bonus.

Now, leaders...
UR-NAMMU
Leader Unique Ability: Code of Ur-Nammu: +1 amenity in each city after researching Code of Laws
Agenda: Dynasty Restorer: Ur-Nammu dislikes civs who occupy foreign cities or city-states, and likes civs who liberate them.

SHULGI
Leader Unique Ability: Vengeance: If another leader declares war on Shulgi, his units gain +5 combat strength.
Agenda: Boastful: Shulgi likes leaders who flatter him. (Not sure how this works mechanically...)

GUDEA
Leader Unique Ability: God of Lagash: Farms with access to fresh water gain +1 food
Agenda:[/b] Statues of Gudea: Gudea likes civs that produce a lot culture and dislikes civs who do not.

KUBABA
Leader Unique Ability: Alewife: Temples provide +1 food
Agenda: Mother of the People: Kubaba likes civs who make declarations of friendship with the same civs she has, and dislikes civs who denounce them.

This was thrown together quickly while I was tired, but it's an example of possibilities...

 

[ThisNameIsTooLo]

@Zaarin
Ideally, the Agenda should allow the AI to take full advantage of the Leader Unique Ability, and possibly some of the Civilization Unique Abilities too.

SHULGI
Leader Unique Ability: Vengeance: If another leader declares war on Shulgi, his units gain +4 combat strength against the declaring civ until peace is made.
Agenda: Boastful: Shulgi likes civs that bribe others to go to war against him, and dislikes civs that broker Peace Treaties on his behalf.

GUDEA
Leader Unique Ability: God of Lagash: Farms with access to fresh water gain +0.75 food.
Agenda: Statues of Gudea: Gudea "likes" civs with relatively low-population cities, and "dislikes" civs with several high-population cities. (In other words, she covets cities with high population, as they're likely to have prime farmland.)

 

[Zaarin]

@Zaarin
Ideally, the Agenda should allow the AI to take full advantage of the Leader Unique Ability, and possibly some of the Civilization Unique Abilities too.

Disagree. Agenda should be about the leader's personality. If it were just about taking advantage of abilities, Scythia would be a raging warmonger who loves sneak attacks...