CivFanatics Forums

Sorry if my opinion offends you.

What you have there atm. is a religious apartheid state in conflict with religious terror organisation made into microstate...no good that come of that, and inevitably it will result in bloody murder.

But in all honesty the problems there did not start with the creation of New Israel in the last century.

The Holy Land first appears in historical literature here around the time of the first crusade, then already we read of "piligrims" being attacked by "heathens" when traveling to the Christian holy places.

Then too it resulted in "a bunch of technologically-advanced settlers showing up from another continent.." establishing a state there, the Crusader states lasted a few centuries, but ultimately ended in disaster too.

420 chrs limit is very annoying.

Again, if there were no religion, this would still be happening. Hell, this is happening in Ukraine as we speak.

What you have at the moment is a brutal colonialist enterprise engaged in ethnic cleansing of the natives, and the natives fighting back.

The colonialist enterprise invokes religion as an excuse, the natives fall back to religion as a reference for their existential struggle (Hamas is NOT all Palestine, lots of Palestinian Christians and secular Palestinians have fought against Israel as well). Religious is nearly always a means to an end, very rarely the end itself.

Calling the conflict 'a bunch of religious people killing each other' completely and utterly misses the ethnic cleansing and apartheid part of the situation (the most important part) and comes off as a sickening attempt to portray it as 'both sides' and effect a false equivalency between rapist and victim

Not so imho, without relgion, the small patch of land we know as the Holy Land would be meaningless, no reason to fight over or ever establish a state there.

The Palestinians live there, that's reason enough to fight against a colonialist entity. As for Israel, most of the early Zionist as well as some of their most important figures (Golda Meir, Moshe Dayan) were secular, in the absence of religion they'd still find any excuse for violent dispossession

All problems follow from the historical fact no less then 3 major world religions consider Jerusalem their holy city.

The Russians, so far, have not invoked religion in their invasion of Ukraine, but when they do, I guess that'll be a bunch of religious people sticking it to each other too?

Sure they did, just recently some Russian clown did cal for a Holy war iirc, I'll see if I can find the article and post it the thread later.