[Vote] (5-31) Golden Age Removal Series: Remove GAPs From Artistry Policy Tree

Approval Vote for Proposal #31


  • Total voters
    76
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.

pineappledan

Deity
Joined
Aug 9, 2017
Messages
10,071
Location
Alberta, Canada
VP Congress: Session 5, Proposal 31

Current situation:
There are 4 sources of :c5goldenage: Golden Age Points per turn in the Artistry tree:
- Humanism: +3 :c5goldenage: to Great Works of Literature​
- Heritage: +4:c5goldenage: and :tourism: to Universities​
- Scaler: +2:c5goldenage:1:c5science: in all cities (up to +10:c5goldenage:5:c5science: per city when tree is finished)​
- Finisher: +3 :c5goldenage: and :c5science: to Landmarks​

As an overview, the artistry tree gives the following yield types to the following GW types:
:greatwork:Art gains +2:c5culture:
:greatwork:Artifacts +2:c5science:
:greatwork:Music +4:c5gold:
:greatwork:Literature +3:c5goldenage:
When combined, Artistry gives 14:c5goldenage:GAP per city, plus additional sources from Landmarks and GWWriting

re: other GA-related bonuses, Artistry also gives the following:
Amount of :c5goldenage:Golden Age Points needed to trigger a :c5goldenage:Golden Age reduced by 25%​
Gives a :tourism:Historic Event for beginning a golden Age​
+10%:c5culture: during Golden Ages​

Proposal:
Remove the per-city GAP sources and replace them with other bonuses:

Scaler:
Remove 2:c5goldenage: per city per level
Replace with +20% progress towards :c5goldenage: Golden Ages from Excess :c5happy:happiness on Empire per level
ie. when fully adopted, Artistry makes each point of :c5happy:happiness in excess of needs contribute 2:c5goldenage:GAP instead of 1​
This ability is New Code
Heritage:
Remove +4:c5goldenage: and :tourism: to Universities
Replace with +50% to all :tourism: / :c5culture: Theming Bonuses on Empire (vanilla Aesthetics finisher)

Humanism:
Replace +3:c5goldenage:GAP on GWWriting with +3:c5faith:Faith

Finisher:
Remove +3:c5goldenage:GAP on Landmarks. No compensation.

Rationale:
There are too many sources of :c5goldenage: GAP in the game, which is contributing to a problem of perpetual GAs in the late game. They make the GA system boring and uninteractive
Artistry is the single largest source of GAPs in the game, and is most guilty for the current situation of endless GAs in the late game. this tree needs to have a lid put back on it.
GAPs should not be considered yields. They have no real world analogue like "Food". They are being distributed in the game carelessly as a filler yield. :c5happy: Happiness should be re-centered as the main source of Golden Ages.
The new scaler would still give Artistry a powerful GAP engine, but does it in a way that keeps :c5happy: as the focus of generating Golden Ages.
The university building boost is boring and uncool. Artistry has 2 other policies that also boost buildings; it's too much repetition! The global bonus to theming is not used anywhere and it's a much more interesting and interactive source of :tourism: that we could swap it with
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think that replacement is not enough and out of theme. What does Artistry(GWWriting) have with Faith and Production?
You made other proposals about GAP and I think that would be good enough.
 
I think that replacement is not enough and out of theme. What does Artistry(GWWriting) have with Faith and Production?
You made other proposals about GAP and I think that would be good enough.
The production especially seems excessive, +3 production IS WAAAAAAY better than +3 GAP
 
re: Humanism and +3 :c5faith: to GWWriting, the term Humanism in this context would refer to Renaissance/Italian Humanism, rather than Englightenment Humanism. This was a movement that rediscovered and re-translated ancient texts that had been imported from the Arab world. They influenced education with the infusion of classical works such as Plutarch, Aristotle, and Cicero. The translated works included re-translations of biblical Greek and Hebrew texts, commissioned by Pope Nicholas V.
 
In light of Artistry being the most-picked tree in the game, maybe this proposal should err more on being a bit more of a nerf?

Maybe the +3:c5goldenage:GAP on Landmarks should just be dropped with no compensation?
 
In light of Artistry being the most-picked tree in the game, maybe this proposal should err more on being a bit more of a nerf?

Maybe the +3:c5goldenage:GAP on Landmarks should just be dropped with no compensation?
That's not even significant at all, being so late in the game. I won't call that a nerf.
 
Okay, so it’s extraneous fluff and should be dropped for that reason?

If we really want to nerf artistry, could drop the 1 :c5science: per city from the scaler. That’s a meaty nerf. Not quite prepared for that leap without assessing the other changes, but I think that’s worth keeping in mind.
 
It's already going back to being a tall tree, with all the per city bonuses removed. The Landmark and scaler are the only things that scale wide.
 
Cultural exchange still gives a per city bonus. A rather big one.

Amended proposal to remove landmark’s 3 GAP with no compensation.
 
I can sponsor everything except the new scaler. I need a DLL sponsor for a 1 new policy ability
 
My one fear with this one is this line:

Replace with +50% to all :tourism: / :c5culture: Theming Bonuses on Empire (vanilla Aesthetics finisher)

I honestly have no idea how strong that is, but we are effectively making the tourism tree even more focused on tourism....and in a Tall way. We made some recent moves to make Artistry more wide friendly and less all about tall, and this feels like a bit of a reversion to that.
 
The bonus replaces 4 :tourism: :c5goldenage: to universities. So it trades 1:tourism: bonus for another.

So is it stronger? It depends. If you think about a 5 city empire, that’s 20:tourism: per turn pretty much immediately, since you probably have unlocked universities before this policy. The theming bonus will grow slower, but will be stronger late game, especially once broadcast towers unlock (12:tourism::c5culture: when themed). Archaeology/museums is a bump, but not a huge one, because Museums only give 6:tourism::c5culture: when themed. Otherwise, this bonus is dependent on wonders to beat the old bonus, and it can only be deployed in a few cities since it is limited by your number of GWs.

Yeah this theme bonus and the new scaler both move artistry taller. I think it is personal preference, but I agree that it would be nice if artistry kept some wide play. However, the new mechanics address more pressing issues than artistry shifting back to tall, imo. I would rather have more interesting and dynamic mechanical bonuses and fewer inert per-city flat yield bonuses.
 
Last edited:
We made some recent moves to make Artistry more wide friendly and less all about tall, and this feels like a bit of a reversion to that.
True. The increased progress towards a Golden Age from Excess Happiness would make up for the loss of the Golden Age Points for tall players. For wide players, it would not. I don't think Artistry should be even more tied to tall play than it currently is.
 
Remember that we will help wide tourism more generally by removing the direct city penalty to historic events.

(Not a direct wide change to wide Artistry, but it does help the two extra historic event triggers that the tree has).
 
I particularly like bring the vanilla Aesthetics finisher back. Sometimes you end up getting some nice theming wonders filled early and it's such a good feeling.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom