Alliances in small maps.

[Arilian]

I usually play on small map as that is the default, and I dont particually enjoy managing 20+cities.

But in small maps, you have 5 enemy - and you have 5 alliance possiblity.
90% of the time I play for some peaceful victory, or roleplay a peaceful civ, and I always able to ally all of the civs very early.

This fully removes the point of alliances with wars - if you are allied of both civs who goes to war, you will not be dragged into the war.

It should work in a ways of real life - you would need to choose. An even if you are not go into war with any of them, the alliance should be cancelled with both, and grivances should be generated.

What do you think?

 

[L4Psha]

As i understand you will go to war if alliance member is attacked. You won't go if he attacks someone.

 

[Arilian]

Yes, but both of them are you allies, It does not matter who attacks, one of your allies are being attached and you should be helping.

 

[L4Psha]

So choose one and help him. Or don't.

 

[Arilian]

But you cannot - it is not offered, and you cannot attack your ally. That is what is thread is about.

 

[L4Psha]

Really? I had similar situation. I was in alliance with poland and norway. And when norway attacked poland i wanted to help poland, but i reconsidered and didn't do it. I thought i could. So wait until alliance expires. But this may cause a danger of betrayal emergency.

 

[MaryKB]

Well you can sort of think about the Falkland Islands War ... the United States is allied with both the United Kingdom and Argentina, and so couldn't really get involved, right? When you've got formal alliances with two nations, you're in a bit of a pickle if they go to war, so I feel like it makes a lot of sense to me. If you want to be able to go to wars, don't ally with everyone. I love being peaceful and always try to make alliances with my neighbors, especially when I'm in Democracy and have such wonderful trade routes.

 

[Takfloyd]

This is yet another broken, poorly thought-out system.

Alliances other than Military Alliances should not come with Defensive Pacts. If your Cultural Ally attacks your Military Ally, you should enter war with the Cultural Ally. The number of alliances you're allowed to have should be scaled to the number of players.

And then there's this bug which makes it all much worse: https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...endless-friendship-with-any-ai-empire.643754/

Once you have an alliance with the AI, you will always be able to keep it for the rest of the game, because the AI doesn't update its opinion of you on the turn the alliance ends, and still thinks it's in an alliance, so it will always accept a renewal.

 

[Arilian]

Hm, I did not know this is a bug, I tought I am so awsome

 

[MaryKB]

I don't believe that's a bug at all, I don't see why suddenly your allies should completely forget your history together and renegotiate from scratch every time.

And I still feel declaring war on your ally makes absolutely no sense to me, you're allies. Really it doesn't matter, you're not going to war, but you do still get grievances you can use after your alliance ends.

 

[Tech Osen]

Once you have an alliance with the AI, you will always be able to keep it for the rest of the game, because the AI doesn't update its opinion of you on the turn the alliance ends, and still thinks it's in an alliance, so it will always accept a renewal.

I have had former allies refuse to renew and eventually go all the way into the red.

 

[CPWimmer]

I have had former allies refuse to renew and eventually go all the way into the red.

So have I.

 

[Tech Osen]

I have had former allies refuse to renew and eventually go all the way into the red.

Having said that I did notice some odd things in my last game. I had Hungary as a neighbour, I never levied any city state units but he accepted an early friendship and I made ally for the inspiration for dipomatic service. Alliance lasted for the rest of the game. Gorgo and Congo were on a different continent. I had zero wars but in the second half of the game Gorgo offered friend/ally herself. I never spread my religion to Congo but he also offered friend/ally. Seems they don't care so much about their primary agenda's anymore. Often I do get huge negative modifiers for different government in the late game.

Also remember a game where I shared a continent with Scotland and the US. One doesn't like wars with neighbours, the other hates wars on the same continent. They kept declaring wars on eachother.

 

[MaryKB]

I like a lot of civilizations now, I feel they're not as predictable as they used to be, and often feel much more natural like in Civilization 5.

I was just in a game where Pericles totally lost his mind because I accidentally completed a few City State quests, and he declared war on me. I also had a war with Gitarja, but I soundly beat her back and she's now my friend.

In my last game I had a -79 modifier from Poundmaker because I'm using a different Tier 4 government than he is XD