Anders Frisk to stop refereeing...

[Lambert Simnel]

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/SPORT/football/03/12/sweden.frisk/

"Referee Anders Frisk is to quit after receiving death threats since officiating the Champions League tie between Barcelona and Chelsea."

This is quite unacceptable. I don't know which to decry more - Mourinho's ridiculous outbursts which have fuelled this (without him ever realising the likely impact of his comments), or the insane level of xenophobia shown by English fans and the English press after anything which might be construed as an incorrect decision against their team (cf Urs Meier).

Frisk is one of the top dozen referees in the world, and surely UEFA have got to try to do something to address the heat directed against these poor souls ?

 

[Gainy]

Whoever sent those death threats really need to look at themselves. ****ing idiots.

'hmm we'll entice one of the best referees in the world to resign, so we can get some nice incompetent chaps to replace him. That way decisions are sure to improve!'

Making someone worry for their families' lives, for doing their job, which only concerns a game ffs, is truly pathetic.

 

[naervod]

This is ridiculous. Anders Frisk is a great referee, and the shows how much of a big prick Jose Mourinho actually is, and as for the death threats, I agree with Gainy bo, though many people do consider it more than a game. You should read How Soccer Explains the World by Franklin Foer. It's by an American author and its about his travels through the footballing communities of England, Scotland, Italy, Spain, Yugoslavia, Ukraine and Iran, and provides a really interesting insight into how football plays into different parts of people's lives, and also, more relevant to this topic, talks about the radical hooliganism and extreme mentalities that come along with football.

 

[phoenix_night]

This is ridiculous. Anders Frisk is a great referee

Who the f*ck told you that?

and the shows how much of a big prick Jose Mourinho actually is

Come on, justify that. Really, do.

If you're going to blame a manager (which is utterly ridiculous anyway), then you'd have to blame Ranieri.

@Lambert,
Blaming this on the English is the only xenophobia I see here.
Mourinho's outburst? That's nonsense. Conveniently ignoring difficulties faced by Frisk earlier this season, at the hands of both fans and managers...

 

[Lambert Simnel]

@Lambert,
Blaming this on the English is the only xenophobia I see here.

Ah. I suspect you didn't see any of the gutter press after the England-Portugal game then. Basically, I see a pattern between the offensive (and, yes, xenophobic) treatment of Meier and the death threats (principally from England) which Frisk has quoted as causing him to step down. You presumably don't.

Mourinho's outburst? That's nonsense. Conveniently ignoring difficulties faced by Frisk earlier this season, at the hands of both fans and managers...

You're right that Frisk has had his fair share of problems earlier this season - though it's after the Chelsea - Barcelona game that he received the death threats. I believe Mourinho's reaction to that game has fuelled the atmosphere in which the death threats were made. Again, I can only guess you don't.

Just occasionally, Phoenix, it would be nice to be able to hold a different opinion than yours without you immediately descending into invective.

 

[phoenix_night]

Again, you're referring to past incidents with the English fans but seem to take little notice of incidents involving other fans. Why is it the English with a problem?

And the idea is for you to provide details of Mourinho's outburst. I recall nothing of the sort - again you're ignoring the outbursts of another manager in favour of this one. Why?

At least take note of those final two points Lambert, and try to respond. If you're going to place the blame on Mourinho, or make these claims, then surely you have to at least back them up? As it stands you have nothing to support them.

 

[Dell19]

Generally people generalise... Spain now has a reputation for not trying hard enough to stamp out racism whilst English fans are hooligans who abuse referees. I may have missed it but what other nations have had pretty much a national campaign against one referee after the Portugal game? When even the local TV news is displaying a link to the referee's website then things have gone too far... (Heres the address, send your abuse there etc.)

 

[Lambert Simnel]

Again, you're referring to past incidents with the English fans but seem to take little notice of incidents involving other fans. Why is it the English with a problem?

The reason I'm referring to the past incidents is because the death threats Frisk received are have been primarily attributed to English fans. CNN made the same link. As did BBC Five Live. As did Fox.

If you're really asking for an opinion on why it is the English with a problem, I think it's to do with the aggressive, confrontational, and anti-European stance often taken by the popular press here.

 

[Lambert Simnel]

And the idea is for you to provide details of Mourinho's outburst. I recall nothing of the sort - again you're ignoring the outbursts of another manager in favour of this one. Why?

http://www.football365.co.uk/news/story_145684.shtml - this notes

"Chelsea manager Jose Mourinho launched an astonishing double attack on Swedish referee Anders Frisk and UEFA as he raised the stakes even higher ahead of the crucial Champions League return leg against Barcelona at Stamford Bridge.

Mourinho hit back over UEFA's claims that Chelsea had asked for assurances respected official Pierluigi Collina was appointed as the referee for the game.

And in a typical piece of Mourinho arrogance, the Chelsea boss accused Frisk of bias towards the Spanish giants in the first leg and UEFA of lying about his demands for Collina."

The CNN piece said "Chelsea manager Jose Mourinho harshly criticized Frisk after the game".

Sporting Life noted (http://www.sportinglife.com/story_get.dor?STORY_NAME=soccer/05/03/07/manual_142221.html):
"Chelsea manager Jose Mourinho launched an astonishing double attack on Swedish referee Anders Frisk and UEFA"

Hopefully those pieces will help jog your memory....

.... If you're going to place the blame on Mourinho...

I'm not trying to place the blame on Mourinho (as I guess you're probably well aware). I'm saying that his behaviour unwittingly made the death threats more likely.

I'm surprised though, that you recall nothing of Mourinho's comments. As for me making the link between Mourinho's comments and the death threats, well, an awful lot of other people appear to done so as well...

Volker Roth offers this (on Fox: http://foxsports.news.com.au/story/0,8659,12538127-23215,00.html)

"Referees turn on Mourinho
From correspondents in Stockholm
March 14, 2005

THE chairman of UEFA's referee's committee says coaches are indirectly to blame for the kind of incidents that prompted Anders Frisk to retire and described Chelsea's Jose Mourinho as "the enemy of football"."

 

[naervod]

Who the f*ck told you that?

No one has to tell me, I can figure things out for myself thank you very much.

Come on, justify that. Really, do.

If you're going to blame a manager (which is utterly ridiculous anyway), then you'd have to blame Ranieri.

I'm not even blaming Mourinho entirely. And if you seriously need me to justify it, then you better go back and read the news for the past month. For example, the whole incident in Barcelona, do you think that if Chelsea had won that Mourinho would have whined about the referee? No, he was trying to shift the blame on the first-leg loss so he wouldn't come under fire.

 

[Shabbaman]

I wouldn't put all the blame on Mourinho here. Most football fans are people who can think for themselves. Unfortunately, there are some who can't, and those are the sorry bunch.
Mourinho's whining might have pointed them in the wrong direction. Compared to what happened to Urs Maier, this is next to nothing.

 

[Lambert Simnel]

@Shabbaman - I agree with all you say, with the exception of your last comment.

Unless/until we're in a better position to judge the death threats (both in terms of seeing the detail, and in terms of being more knowledgeable about the seriousness of such death threats), then I doubt if we're able to easily write this incident off as being much less than the Meier one. Frisk is certainly taking it seriously enough.

 

[WickedSmurf]

Well, there goes Sweden's only contribution to European football. Bummer.

 

[classical_hero]

Well, there goes Sweden's only contribution to European football. Bummer.

You seem to be forgetting their many stars such as Ljungberg, Larsson, Ibrahimovic, and others.

 

[Shabbaman]

Unless/until we're in a better position to judge the death threats (both in terms of seeing the detail, and in terms of being more knowledgeable about the seriousness of such death threats), then I doubt if we're able to easily write this incident off as being much less than the Meier one.

Hm. I didn't meant the threats, I meant the hetze. A threat is a threat though. But you're correct.

 

[WickedSmurf]

You seem to be forgetting their many stars such as Ljungberg, Larsson, Ibrahimovic, and others.

Forget? No. Ignore? Yes.

 

[MCdread]

He was a bad referee anyway. Mourinho helped football getting rid of him.

Seriously, if he feels it's the right thing, then I support the decision. It's a shame that a referee receives this kind of abuse (outside the stadium that is, because inside any kind of abuse is soft ), but I'm not sure how much exactly should Mourinho be blamed. To call him an "enemy of football" is clearly ridiculous. If it's true what he says, he has the right to complain, if not, he should be punished by UEFA. There is not a single day that there isn't some coach in some part of the world saying worse things about a ref in public. He didn't told people to threaten Frisk, and I'm sure he wasn't expecting that fans would do that because of his words. If UEFA wants to punish him for his excessive words, that's fine, but I don't think it's that honest to say he is the reason for Frisk abandoning refereeing.

And I think the Meier thing was worse, because in the Frisk situation I don't recall such an organised campaign in the press, including "journalists" publishing his email address and even where he lived IIRC.

 

[Lambert Simnel]

@MCDread. I don't think anyone is suggesting that Mourinho "is the reason for Frisk abandoning refereeing." And I agree "the enemy of football" quote was generously over the top. (It did make me smile though, and I quoted it because I suspected that Phoenix was being deliberately uncomprehending...)

However, I think managers generally bear some responsibilty for their remarks and need to be aware of how influential they can be. Mourinho in particular comes across as quite naive and unthinking in this respect - he doesn't appear to realise that it's real people with real lives he is criticising, rather than just part of an elaborate game.

No, he's not the only one. But he's managed a surprisingly decent number of incendiary remarks whilst in English football despite his short time there.

 

[phoenix_night]

The reason I'm referring to the past incidents is because the death threats Frisk received are have been primarily attributed to English fans. CNN made the same link. As did BBC Five Live. As did Fox.

Exactly...and ignoring past incidents involving non-English fans.

If you're really asking for an opinion on why it is the English with a problem, I think it's to do with the aggressive, confrontational, and anti-European stance often taken by the popular press here.

It's not (only) the English with a problem.

Hopefully those pieces will help jog your memory....

Have you actually read those "outbursts"?
If you feel there is anything in your sources to warrant such a claim, please post it. Suggesting Mourinho went on some sort of rampage against Frisk is a bit of an exaggeration, don't you think?

As for me making the link between Mourinho's comments and the death threats, well, an awful lot of other people appear to done so as well...

First of all, it is the blame being placed on Mourinho I have a problem with (see naervod's post). Volker Roth is placing blame on Mourinho.

Secondly, it seems you are placing blame at Mourinho's door. Why? Are you suggesting (with this link of yours) that Mourinho is responsible and should be treated as such?

I'm not even blaming Mourinho entirely.

Then why is he a pr*ck?

For example, the whole incident in Barcelona, do you think that if Chelsea had won that Mourinho would have whined about the referee? No, he was trying to shift the blame on the first-leg loss so he wouldn't come under fire.

The incident took place at half time, remember, before Chelsea lost and when they were leading 1-0. That's why there was no press conference.

Is it fair to say he whined? I don't think so. There were some passing remarks, but it was not given as the reason for Chelsea's defeat; Mourinho admitted that Chelsea were outplayed. Contrary to what you may think/say, Mourinho has been gracious in defeat this season...only days before the Barcelona tie Chelsea were knocked out of the FA Cup. The reason? Mourinho: "It was my fault".

You should be well aware that managers disagree with officials week in week out. You should also know that this is nothing in relation to many other incidents that take place in football. Mourinho did nothing exceptional at all.

Frisk has retired because of death threats. Mourinho didn't send them and he doesn't condone them. Blaming this on Mourinho is childish and naive IMO. Any football fan knows of the relationship between officials and managers, and that Mourinho is not "the enemy of football".

 

[Lambert Simnel]

I'm not trying to place the blame on Mourinho (as I guess you're probably well aware).

Secondly, it seems you are placing blame at Mourinho's door.

Hell, one example's enough. Let's give this up. Either you see dots where I see patterns, or you're just looking to argue for the sake of it. I suspect the latter, but at this point I don't care which. And I think I'll skip re-running some of your previous forum exchanges on the lines of "did you even read my post" - no-one ever gets anything out of those.

The reason for the thread was to indicate my sadness at Frisk being bullied out of the game - if you do share that emotion in the slightest..., well, you certainly haven't given any sign of it in your posts to date.