Barbs and Uberunits

[marioflag]

First of all let me say one thing: I would give my compliments to creators of this mod, when I installed it I would give it a try but i never expected a thing so well done.Someone should really pay you guys !!!

In my first game i have noticed anyway some things which seems really unbalanced.Usually on civ vanilla games i play at prince difficulty, i chose noble difficulty to play for the first time this mod.I played also with raging barbs.
In my opinion there should be a cap to XP received from barbs because after the first turn in which you risk really to be overwhelmed by them as soon as you get experienced units they became just a useful cannon fodder to make your units experienced.I had 3 barbarian cities full of barbs which attacked me every turn with more than 5 units, sometimes with 10 units, anyway it is useless to say that everytime they attacked they were destroyed and my units received just a few points of damage, also the poor Curtiss was destroyed by my uber elven warrior which didn't receive any damage.
In 300 turns i got a unit with 122 XP which was really undestroyable, and another with 89 XP.With these 2 uber units it was too easy for me to destroy all the infernal cities and 5 cities of hippus.Considering that Promotions seems to have effect doubled on this mod and xp points seems also to be doubled from combat wouldn't be better to do anything to counterbalance uberunits?
AI also doesn't seem to take advantage of experienced units nor know how to defend from them.The fact also that there is no artillery unit for a long time doesn't help them.
To reassume barbs are too weak as soon as you get xp units, and uberunits make the game too easy.After 470 turns i have already destroyed all my best opponents

 

[Sureshot]

normal leaders units only get a max of 100xp from barbs, but im guessing you were a raider? raiders get xp really fast so that explains your quick gains. personally i play on deity and i find that provides a nice challenge.

were you Tasunke of the Hippus by any chance? they get Aggressive and Raiders which makes them get xp quickly with their warrios, which gives them a good start, but on most game speeds the aais will start pumping out axemen early, and without traits like financial you'll less likely to keep up with them in techs.

 

[marioflag]

the 122 xp was made almost totally of 90% of attacks of barbs but a 10% was also made by some attacks on last turns on infernal considering that this unit was too strong to be destroyed.
i was the elven race i don't remember the name, the leader is creative and spiritual.unit with 89 xp also was too strong. the problem is that in my opinion it is too much an advantage for human player using these units because AI when you menace their cities don't try to attack these units remain just watching their cities captured or razed

 

[retro V]

Reffering to his uber elven warrior, he must have been Ljosalfar. As to counterbalancing units, there is one way: play harder levels. Try monarch and even emporer and you'll face highly promoted AI units too.

Oops, too late!

 

[marioflag]

yeah it was ljosalfar.After first games at noble to know all the content of the mod i will surely go to harder difficulties because games seems a lot easier than vanilla games.

 

[Sureshot]

multiplayer games are fun..

the ai is learning to deal with all the new stuff, but theres a lot for it to learn just in general, much less that each civ needs to be played differently to be played optimally.

 

[marioflag]

yeah i know sureshot as soon as i become more expert on this mod i will surely play it online considering that there is a lot more content than vanilla version, so it will be more funny.

 

[Sarisin]

I started out playing mostly raging barb games. However, I discovered a rather simple way to win every game no matter what the difficulty is: just let the poor AI of your competing civs get wiped out by the barbs.

They will tend to expand, expand, expand and race for dopey techs like Trade so they can get Foreign Trade. Meanwhile, as you say, they have warriors with no promotions guarding their cities or hunters wandering around getting picked off.

If you have the Raider trait (you are playing Amanlanchier or whatever) it is helpful in gaining promotions and building strong units. There is really no reason you should lose a raging barb game if you just build and defend one or two cities and wait for the ai civs to be wiped out.

It IS more challenging if you have one or more (try playing with three) civs with the BAR trait as the barbs will not attack them. You really face an onslaught then, but this scenario is very winnable too.

Now, until the AI of the other civs in defending their cities is improved, I don't choose the raging barb option.

But, then, you have to contend with these blasted things called Defensive Pacts

 

[marioflag]

Personally i find that the unbalancement is in the fact that having promotions effect is doubled and that barbarians remains the same for a long time.
At the beginning they are really a pain and can destroy one or more of your cities if you don't defend very well.The problem comes when your units become experienced, barbs attack hopelessly your city, so you have unit stronger and stronger due to xp while they remain the same goblin scouts or orc warriors without promos.This also destabilize the balance of game because with a 10 level unit accompained by one or 2 other units for defense you can really wipe out civs, while barbs give free xp to your not yet experienced units remained in the cities.So 2 things in my opinion should help balancing the game make really hard having super experienced and strong units and give barbs more powerful units after the first turns: like in vanilla you have axeman which appears after the first attacks of warrior and archers.

 

[Silverkiss]

You won´t see really uber units until you play the Calabim, their vampires can eat population for exp, I alredy got an army of 5 vampires with 1000+ (correct, 1000+) exp...

 

[Grey Fox]

Well 016 will have an upgraded AI combat odds calc, so that it will make more accurate choices when it comes to combat odds.


Check this:

Spoiler :

Ok. I've done some tests and the above post seems to be correct. I've done combats over a range of strengths, and here are the results:

------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1800 
Defender strength: 880 
Human calculated Combat odds: 99
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 67
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 91
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1800 
Defender strength: 660 
Human calculated Combat odds: 99
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 73
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 94
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1800 
Defender strength: 2700 
Human calculated Combat odds: 9
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 40
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 18
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1800 
Defender strength: 440 
Human calculated Combat odds: 100
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 80
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 97
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1800 
Defender strength: 3520 
Human calculated Combat odds: 1
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 33
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 9
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1800 
Defender strength: 660 
Human calculated Combat odds: 99
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 73
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 94
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1800 
Defender strength: 1000 
Human calculated Combat odds: 97
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 64
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 87
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1800 
Defender strength: 220 
Human calculated Combat odds: 100
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 89
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 98
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1800 
Defender strength: 3520 
Human calculated Combat odds: 1
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 33
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 9
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 600 
Defender strength: 1280 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 31
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 8
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 600 
Defender strength: 660 
Human calculated Combat odds: 31
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 47
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 31
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 600 
Defender strength: 2200 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 21
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 3
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 600 
Defender strength: 440 
Human calculated Combat odds: 79
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 57
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 73
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 600 
Defender strength: 3520 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 14
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 1
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 600 
Defender strength: 660 
Human calculated Combat odds: 31
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 47
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 31
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 600 
Defender strength: 500 
Human calculated Combat odds: 72
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 54
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 70
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 600 
Defender strength: 3520 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 14
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 1
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 500 
Defender strength: 1280 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 28
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 6
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 500 
Defender strength: 660 
Human calculated Combat odds: 22
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 43
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 27
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 500 
Defender strength: 2200 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 18
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 2
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 500 
Defender strength: 440 
Human calculated Combat odds: 69
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 53
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 69
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 500 
Defender strength: 3520 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 12
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 1
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 500 
Defender strength: 660 
Human calculated Combat odds: 22
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 43
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 27
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 500 
Defender strength: 500 
Human calculated Combat odds: 50
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 50
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 50
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 500 
Defender strength: 3520 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 12
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 1
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 800 
Defender strength: 880 
Human calculated Combat odds: 44
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 54
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 31
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 800 
Defender strength: 428 
Human calculated Combat odds: 99
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 71
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 91
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 800 
Defender strength: 2200 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 32
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 5
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 800 
Defender strength: 285 
Human calculated Combat odds: 100
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 78
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 95
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 800 
Defender strength: 3520 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 23
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 2
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 800 
Defender strength: 428 
Human calculated Combat odds: 99
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 71
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 91
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 800 
Defender strength: 1000 
Human calculated Combat odds: 24
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 44
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 28
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 600 
Defender strength: 1280 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 31
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 8
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 600 
Defender strength: 660 
Human calculated Combat odds: 31
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 47
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 31
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 600 
Defender strength: 2200 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 21
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 3
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 600 
Defender strength: 1280 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 31
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 8
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 600 
Defender strength: 660 
Human calculated Combat odds: 31
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 47
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 31
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 600 
Defender strength: 1280 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 31
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 8
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 600 
Defender strength: 660 
Human calculated Combat odds: 31
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 47
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 31
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 600 
Defender strength: 2200 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 21
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 3
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 600 
Defender strength: 440 
Human calculated Combat odds: 79
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 57
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 73
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 600 
Defender strength: 3520 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 14
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 1
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 600 
Defender strength: 660 
Human calculated Combat odds: 31
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 47
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 31
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 600 
Defender strength: 1000 
Human calculated Combat odds: 3
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 37
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 13
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 3520 
Human calculated Combat odds: 24
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 44
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 28
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 660 
Human calculated Combat odds: 100
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 80
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 97
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 1000 
Human calculated Combat odds: 99
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 73
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 94
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 3520 
Human calculated Combat odds: 24
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 44
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 28
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 1000 
Human calculated Combat odds: 99
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 73
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 94
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 3520 
Human calculated Combat odds: 24
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 44
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 28
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 880 
Human calculated Combat odds: 100
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 76
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 96
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 660 
Human calculated Combat odds: 100
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 80
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 97
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 2200 
Human calculated Combat odds: 75
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 56
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 71
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 440 
Human calculated Combat odds: 100
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 86
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 98
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 3520 
Human calculated Combat odds: 24
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 44
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 28
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 660 
Human calculated Combat odds: 100
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 80
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 97
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 1000 
Human calculated Combat odds: 99
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 73
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 94
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 3520 
Human calculated Combat odds: 24
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 44
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 28
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 440 
Human calculated Combat odds: 100
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 86
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 98
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 3520 
Human calculated Combat odds: 24
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 44
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 28
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 660 
Human calculated Combat odds: 100
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 80
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 97
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 1000 
Human calculated Combat odds: 99
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 73
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 94
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 3520 
Human calculated Combat odds: 24
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 44
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 28
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 660 
Human calculated Combat odds: 100
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 80
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 97
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 1000 
Human calculated Combat odds: 99
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 73
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 94
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 3520 
Human calculated Combat odds: 24
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 44
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 28
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 880 
Human calculated Combat odds: 100
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 76
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 96
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 660 
Human calculated Combat odds: 100
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 80
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 97
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 2200 
Human calculated Combat odds: 75
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 56
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 71
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 440 
Human calculated Combat odds: 100
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 86
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 98
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 3520 
Human calculated Combat odds: 24
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 44
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 28
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 660 
Human calculated Combat odds: 100
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 80
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 97
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 1000 
Human calculated Combat odds: 99
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 73
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 94
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 3520 
Human calculated Combat odds: 24
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 44
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 28
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 440 
Defender strength: 600 
Human calculated Combat odds: 20
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 42
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 26
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 880 
Defender strength: 800 
Human calculated Combat odds: 55
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 45
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 68
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 880 
Defender strength: 400 
Human calculated Combat odds: 99
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 68
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 91
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 660 
Defender strength: 1200 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 29
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 8
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 660 
Defender strength: 600 
Human calculated Combat odds: 67
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 52
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 68
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 660 
Defender strength: 600 
Human calculated Combat odds: 67
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 52
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 68
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1000 
Defender strength: 2800 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 26
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 5
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1000 
Defender strength: 2800 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 26
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 5
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1000 
Defender strength: 1656 
Human calculated Combat odds: 3
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 37
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 13
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1000 
Defender strength: 2800 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 26
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 5
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1000 
Defender strength: 2800 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 26
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 5
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1000 
Defender strength: 1656 
Human calculated Combat odds: 3
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 37
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 13
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1000 
Defender strength: 2800 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 26
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 5
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1000 
Defender strength: 2800 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 26
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 5
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1000 
Defender strength: 1656 
Human calculated Combat odds: 3
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 37
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 13
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1000 
Defender strength: 2800 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 26
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 5
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1000 
Defender strength: 2800 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 26
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 5
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1000 
Defender strength: 2800 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 26
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 5
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1000 
Defender strength: 2800 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 26
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 5
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1000 
Defender strength: 2800 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 26
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 5
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1000 
Defender strength: 2800 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 26
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 5
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1000 
Defender strength: 2800 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 26
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 5
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1000 
Defender strength: 2800 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 26
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 5
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1000 
Defender strength: 2800 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 26
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 5
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1000 
Defender strength: 2800 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 26
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 5
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1000 
Defender strength: 2800 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 26
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 5
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1000 
Defender strength: 2800 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 26
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 5
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1656 
Defender strength: 440 
Human calculated Combat odds: 100
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 79
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 89
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1656 
Defender strength: 3520 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 31
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 8
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1656 
Defender strength: 1000 
Human calculated Combat odds: 96
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 62
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 86
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1656 
Defender strength: 3520 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 31
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 8
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 600 
Defender strength: 1280 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 31
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 8
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 600 
Defender strength: 660 
Human calculated Combat odds: 31
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 47
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 31
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 600 
Defender strength: 2200 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 21
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 3
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 600 
Defender strength: 440 
Human calculated Combat odds: 79
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 57
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 73
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 600 
Defender strength: 3520 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 14
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 1
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 600 
Defender strength: 1280 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 31
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 8
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 600 
Defender strength: 660 
Human calculated Combat odds: 31
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 47
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 31
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 600 
Defender strength: 2200 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 21
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 3
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 600 
Defender strength: 1280 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 31
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 8
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 600 
Defender strength: 660 
Human calculated Combat odds: 31
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 47
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 31
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 600 
Defender strength: 1280 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 31
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 8
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 600 
Defender strength: 660 
Human calculated Combat odds: 31
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 47
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 31
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 600 
Defender strength: 2200 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 21
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 3
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 600 
Defender strength: 440 
Human calculated Combat odds: 79
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 57
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 73
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 600 
Defender strength: 3520 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 14
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 1
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 500 
Defender strength: 1280 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 28
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 6
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 500 
Defender strength: 660 
Human calculated Combat odds: 22
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 43
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 27
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 500 
Defender strength: 2200 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 18
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 2
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 500 
Defender strength: 440 
Human calculated Combat odds: 69
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 53
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 69
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 500 
Defender strength: 3520 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 12
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 1
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 800 
Defender strength: 880 
Human calculated Combat odds: 44
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 54
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 31
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 800 
Defender strength: 428 
Human calculated Combat odds: 99
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 71
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 89
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 800 
Defender strength: 2200 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 32
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 5
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 800 
Defender strength: 285 
Human calculated Combat odds: 100
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 78
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 89
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 800 
Defender strength: 3520 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 23
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 2
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 440 
Human calculated Combat odds: 100
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 86
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 89
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 3520 
Human calculated Combat odds: 24
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 44
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 28
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 1000 
Human calculated Combat odds: 99
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 73
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 89
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 3520 
Human calculated Combat odds: 24
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 44
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 28
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 440 
Human calculated Combat odds: 100
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 86
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 89
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 3520 
Human calculated Combat odds: 24
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 44
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 28
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 1000 
Human calculated Combat odds: 99
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 73
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 89
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 3520 
Human calculated Combat odds: 24
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 44
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 28
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 880 
Human calculated Combat odds: 100
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 76
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 89
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 660 
Human calculated Combat odds: 100
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 80
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 89
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 2200 
Human calculated Combat odds: 75
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 56
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 71
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 3520 
Human calculated Combat odds: 24
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 44
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 28
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 1000 
Human calculated Combat odds: 99
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 73
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 89
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 3520 
Human calculated Combat odds: 24
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 44
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 28
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 2200 
Human calculated Combat odds: 75
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 56
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 71
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 3520 
Human calculated Combat odds: 24
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 44
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 28
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 1000 
Human calculated Combat odds: 99
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 73
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 89
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 880 
Human calculated Combat odds: 100
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 76
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 89
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 660 
Human calculated Combat odds: 100
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 80
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 89
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 2200 
Human calculated Combat odds: 75
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 56
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 71
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 3520 
Human calculated Combat odds: 24
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 44
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 28
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 1000 
Human calculated Combat odds: 99
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 73
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 89
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 2800 
Defender strength: 3520 
Human calculated Combat odds: 24
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 44
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 28
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1000 
Defender strength: 2000 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 33
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 9
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1000 
Defender strength: 2000 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 33
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 9
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1000 
Defender strength: 2000 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 33
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 9
------ Combat odds -------
Attacker strength: 1000 
Defender strength: 2000 
Human calculated Combat odds: 0
Vanilla AI calculated Combat odds: 33
Warlords AI calculated Combat odds: 9

Warlords AI is pretty accurate, although slightly normailzed, Vanilla AI is still very normalized toward 50%.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Also, you will see harder barbs sooner at harder difficulty levels. And the AI is at least *a little* more competent in a couple ways in the upcoming version. Get yourself familiar with the techs, then bump up to monarch.

 

[Sureshot]

should make a sticky thread called "X is overpowered" and put links to all the so-and-so are overpowered threads

 

[BCalchet]

[Edit: never mind, that made no sense.]

 

[Chandrasekhar]

I really hope the barbs start pumping out tier-2 units (and more than lizardmen) more in .016. I mean, I should be able to just barely keep up with them in Deity, and instead I find that they're still far too easy. I guess the flipside is that the AI can't handle them too well, but that does seem to be getting improved in .016.

 

[Sarisin]

In a raging barb game, I don't think there is much challenge in defending your cities. It is easy to sit back, let the barbs attack and rack up the XP. If you have the RAI trait all the better.

Also, as I said, there is no challenge in winning the game due to the poor way AI civs react to raging barbs.

However, I think there IS a challenge in protecting your cities' improvements in a raging barb game. This is what can make a game tougher as you have to come out to get those worg riders and chariots with all those movement pts. who prefer to pillage your improvements vs. attack your city directly. Setting up your units to protect can be a bit challenging.

Also, as I said, if you want an interesting raging barb game, selected two or more ai civs with the BAR trait. The game will go longer and you will really have your hands full.

But, soon, the non-BAR trait ai civs will be wiped out and then it will be just you and Jonas and Charadon and Infernal. Then, the trick is to get them (not difficult) to break the 50% rule so the barbs turn on them.

Sit back, defend, and watch the fun as the civs formerly buddies with the barbs get pounded by them. The final result always seems to be a Conquest Victory for you before yr 1000 in a marathon game...

 

[Unser Giftzwerg]

In a raging barb game, I don't think there is much challenge in defending your cities. It is easy to sit back, let the barbs attack and rack up the XP. If you have the RAI trait all the better.

Also, as I said, there is no challenge in winning the game due to the poor way AI civs react to raging barbs.

However, I think there IS a challenge in protecting your cities' improvements in a raging barb game. This is what can make a game tougher as you have to come out to get those worg riders and chariots with all those movement pts. who prefer to pillage your improvements vs. attack your city directly. Setting up your units to protect can be a bit challenging.

Also, as I said, if you want an interesting raging barb game, selected two or more ai civs with the BAR trait. The game will go longer and you will really have your hands full.

But, soon, the non-BAR trait ai civs will be wiped out and then it will be just you and Jonas and Charadon and Infernal. Then, the trick is to get them (not difficult) to break the 50% rule so the barbs turn on them.

Sit back, defend, and watch the fun as the civs formerly buddies with the barbs get pounded by them. The final result always seems to be a Conquest Victory for you before yr 1000 in a marathon game...

Wow this goes to show you how players will think of new strategies. Conquer the world by carving out a tiny civilized niche.

For my money Raging Barb games would be harder if the Barbs could build the ol' STR 1 move 2 Scout unit, because as you say movement points make improvement protection difficult. But that would't do anything against a leader bound and determined to rope-a-dope the entire planet.

 

[Sarisin]

Wow this goes to show you how players will think of new strategies. Conquer the world by carving out a tiny civilized niche.

For my money Raging Barb games would be harder if the Barbs could build the ol' STR 1 move 2 Scout unit, because as you say movement points make improvement protection difficult. But that would't do anything against a leader bound and determined to rope-a-dope the entire planet.

Again, I don't think you have to do anything with the barbs - they are fine and their 'raging' makes for a challenging game. But, IMO, you do have to improve the AI of the other civs in defending against the raging barbs. Otherwise, as you said you have an easy Conquest Victory by building only one city and outlasting the ai civs.

Honestly, I enjoyed this at first, but with all games, once you discover a surefire way to win, you look for more challenges. With FFH, I am still challenged to win games at Monarch level without raging barbs. I can't seem to make it above Monarch though. Actually, I find that you often get swarmed by barbs without using the raging barb option depending on the circumstances (how many civs left without the BAR trait, etc.). I also like the Aggressive AI option, but find few wars between AI civs being declared on me or between the AI civs themselves.

 

[QES]

I find all these reports of High Level units HIGHLY erroneous. I've no doubt that you've actually got units with that much experiance, especially with the Calabim - BUt why the hell havnt you conquered the planet by that point?!

Those units should be on the offensive, taking out units and generally causing damage. I never have highly promoted units, because once they get to a critical mass of "ooo i think this may turn a tide" or "ooo this will be unstoppable" - they go out and do my dirty work for me.
I have YET to even bulid immortals. Becuase my units are either winning the war, or sitting peaceably in my cities. Or, i get crushed by an unexpected attack (always the way I get crushed). There isnt any "long haul" units, they're either fighting, or busy doing nothing (Thereby not being promoted). And most of my units eventually die, or I win.
-Qes

 

[xanaqui42]

I really hope the barbs start pumping out tier-2 units (and more than lizardmen) more in .016. I mean, I should be able to just barely keep up with them in Deity, and instead I find that they're still far too easy. I guess the flipside is that the AI can't handle them too well, but that does seem to be getting improved in .016.

Interesting; at least at lower difficulty levels, the only tier-3 units (and sometimes the only tier-2 units) other than mine have been from the Barbarian State in my games.