Best way to start for a youngster? (C3C)

[SeriousCaller]

Hello all.
I've not posted for a while here - I usually play on Monarch (C3C), although I can beat emperor, usually by warmongering in the middle ages to domination/conquest. My 8 year old son is fascinated by watching me play civ, and has taken to starting games on his own. He has the usual starter bad habits: too few workers, poor city placement, wonder addiction, too slow on the REX, even on the lowest difficulty, poor management of happiness and income. I can hopefuly correct most of this, but I am posting to ask what others think will be the best settings for my son to start a serious game on? I don't want to hold his hand too much, but I want him to pick up good management and strategy.

I'm guessing tiny pangaea on chieftan, perhaps Babylon? I think he would enjoy a builder game, as I don't think he has the skills to manage all the variables for a warmonger game yet. I would love to see him win by diplo or space race.

So, any ideas for the easiest set up for a builder win?

 

[Aabraxan]

I'm sort of in the same boat that you are. My daughter, who is 6, has also decided that she wants to take up C3C. The difference is that Princess Bloodthirsty doesn't show builder tendencies. She's more than happy to DOW somebody. I put her on Chieftain, continents, as Korea. (She likes Korea and exploring with boats.) She does tend to build too many defensive units. It's not uncommon to find about 12 spears in her capital, even on Chieftain.

I think there's a big difference between 6 and 8, though, in terms of how many variables they can track, though. He might be able to handle Warlord, which would give him some incentive to keep an eye on his treasury, unlike Chieftain. I'm not much of a builder, but Babylon seems like a pretty good choice, for the cheap temples & libs, as well as the better shot at an SGL. A pangaea map, obviously, will speed up the tech pace for the AIs a little, but at Chieftain, it shouldn't make enough difference to hurt him. Might actually turn out to be beneficial, because he'll be able to do more trading without worrying about crossing water.

One thing that I did that my daughter really seems to enjoy is that I set us up on a multiplayer game. She's playing Korea and I'm playing the Maya. That lets her make the decisions for her empire, while I deal with mine. Do I look over her shoulder and offer advice? You bet. Does she take my advice? No, not always, but that's OK. As you might imagine, I'm expected to trade heavily with her, and generally beat up AIs that she dislikes. I figure that if I get to play civ with my daughter, that's a small price to pay.

 

[timerover51]

My view is that having kids of 6 and 8 playing any kind of computer game is not the best for them. They should be playing outside and with other kids, not staring at a computer screen. They will get enough computer screen staring time later in life.

 

[SeriousCaller]

Thanks for the parenting tip. My son gets limited computer time, does not own any kind of console, and chooses to spend his computer time on civ rather than miniclip, etc. I for one am glad that he is interested in playing something constructive, rather than those dreadful commando games

 

[Aabraxan]

My daughter does own a DS (before becoming interested in C3C, she kept borrowing Daddy's CivRev), and she is allowed some computer time. Her internet access is more strictly limited. She is not allowed to just roam the net. At this time of year in Arkansas, the weather is miserable, as I'm sure it is up around Chicago. Playing outside in 40-degree, drizzly weather, isn't much of an option. My wife and I do encourage other activities, but we don't object to some computer games. I'm just glad that she's interested in something that requires a little thought on her part.

 

[ChaosArbiter]

My view is that having kids of 6 and 8 playing any kind of computer game is not the best for them. They should be playing outside and with other kids, not staring at a computer screen. They will get enough computer screen staring time later in life.

Or, myself, who did play outside quite often - and when I was inside, I was reading - until I got JRA, which kinda meant I wasn't able to run around outside.

EDIT: On-topic, I would say Pangaea or Continents, and I'd say that on Chieftain, it might actually be easier to go bloodthirsty on the AI, since they won't have as many units as on higher difficulties. Just point out that this unit is good at attacking, and if the player doesn't mind losses, they'll steamroll pretty easily. I do know that when I was 8 I had pretty good grasp of choke points and terrain effects (although that was more of a "smaller area to be attacked from means they won't be able to surround me" and "higher = good," as a game that I was starting at that point was Doom II ...).

Something you might try is a sort of roleplaying, where you play the actual Figurehead and give out occasional commands that should help with management later on - nothing too overwhelming, but something like picking a favourite city and giving occasional requests like "Bring Ivory to City XX" or "Reduce the amount of buildings in City YY without compromising it." It might help a bit if you let them do general things on their own, and just ask for certain things, as - at least in cases I've seen - kids tend to absorb things better when *they* ask why something should be done, rather than someone telling them to do something.

 

[Sashie VII]

I figure that if I get to play civ with my daughter, that's a small price to pay.

Amen to that. Let's hope the (future) mother of my (future) children won't throw a fit when I do it

 

[timerover51]

My 16-year old daughter every once in a while will play Marine Mania on her Macbook lsptop. If we play anything together it is likely to be Australian Rails by Mayfair Games, a board game. Her view of computers is that are for homework (bah, humbug), Itunes, and Facebook, plus DVD watching. She had her first computer when she was 6, but has never gotten into computers at all.

My 18-year old son is presently studying Computer Engineering and Software Engineering at Milwaukee School of Engineering. He is into shooter games to an extent, but much prefers figuring how to write programs and get creative with the computer. He had his first computer at 6. He thinks that I go way overboard in modifying games, but we are talking with some of the other students about figuring out how to develop an editor for the Mac using Java for Civ3. He has never been into Civ3 either, but does like to take me on in Axis and Allies. He also like Australian Rails, and we do need to try out the Lunar Rail game that I got him last Christmas.

As for winter activities, aside from swimming, both kids still are figure skaters, and I spent many hours in ice rinks with their lessons and practice time. Son is in Boy Scouts and made Eagle Scout and he is still active with his troop as an Assistant Scout Master, daughter is in Girl Scouts, and is working on her Gold Award. Both have spent enough time working on the computer without me encouraging them into getting into Civ3.

 

[Aabraxan]

I know this has gotten a little off-topic & I hope the OP will give me just a little more lenience. Timerover51, AFAIK, there's 1 ice rink in the Little Rock metro area, where I live, population ~200K. Just about the only winter activity around here is duck hunting, and she's still too young to be handling firearms.

We tried to start a "family game night" once a week where we play a non-computer game with the whole family. It fizzled the first time, just because my daughter was really too young for it. However, we've just started trying again, and she seems to like Yahtzee pretty well, as do my wife and I. Scrabble is also a favorite, but I'm hoping (in time) to squeeze in some Risk, Axis & Allies and Settlers of Catan. I own several versions of Risk, at least one setup for Axis and Allies, and I've always heard great things about Settlers of Catan, but I've never actually gotten around to buying it.

One of the reasons that I like Civ 3, and MOO2 and SMAC and GalCiv before that, was that they function in many ways the same as the strategy board games, which I've always enjoyed. With Civ 3, though, my daughter can save her game, walk away, and come back later. With 2 cats in the house, leaving a board game set up overnight is a sure-fire recipe for finding your game pieces somewhere under the couch.

 

[ChaosArbiter]

With 2 cats in the house, leaving a board game set up overnight is a sure-fire recipe for finding your game pieces somewhere under the couch.

Or chewed up, or missing entirely/eaten.

 

[SeriousCaller]

Don't mind the off topic, its still relevant. My boys (I have another, 4, also a baby daughter) both love boardgames too. With my eldest, Puerto Rico is a favourite for serious boardgaming, but we also like Talisman. I'm also a (sshhh!) part time wargamer so we occasionally dig out the Warhammer 40k or Blood bowl. The younger two like playing games too, as its focussed parent interest time. All far more important than computer games, but in my view, there are some games which are much more educational than others.

If you like boardgames, try Puerto Rico, or even better, but more complex, Agricola. A civver should love them.

 

[CommandoBob]

I enjoy Settlers of Catan and it is a builder's game. Lots of interaction each turn by all players. Even if you don't control the dice, you can trade with whoever does. I'm not sure if I would recommend it to an 8 year old, even Princess Bloodthirsty. I would try it out first and then determine if she would like it. There is a Catan For Kids, but just the name turns me off.

Catan is designed as a four player and can expand to five or six. It can be played with just three, but works better with four or more, due to the trading element. Be sure and get the 4th edition of the game; same rules (mostly) but newer artwork. The latest expansion is only in the 4th edition, too.

When we have taught people to play Settlers, the initial game takes about 2.5 hours and the next one about an hour and a half. If you lilke and get the various expansions (Seafarers, Cities and Knights and then Traders and Barbarians) it will take longer. But you won't really notice.

My son and his wife are coming in from Kentucky this weekend; we are planning on a 8 player game of Settlers (if everything gets shipped in time!).

I would suggest two other games, too.

Ticket to Ride is a simple game of building railroads across the US. No dice, no movement. You have to collect sets of cards to build each railroad (6 White for one but only 2 Green for another). On your turn you can either collect cards or build railroads. The scoring is done around the border of the game board. Takes about 90 minutes to play a game. Rules are in one four page booklet.

Carcassonne is a tile based game where each player add to the game board each turn, one tile at a time. Scoring is not too hard and the play can be rather quick. The Rivers expansion is a great help for initial setup.

For Christmas 2007 I got my wife both Ticket to Ride and Carcassonne Big Box, which contains some of the more popular expansions.

 

[ChaosArbiter]

Seconding Carcassonne! Awesome game, and I personally like it better than Cataan, although more because of the lack of dice than anything else.

 

[Arexander]

Thirding (?) Carcassonne! It is an awesome game which I always play with my friends when they come to visit. And my parents and siblings love it too! Remember to buy the expansions! They add more fun to it.

 

[Aabraxan]

Good tips, gang! Thanks.

 

[splunge the 2nd]

My 9 year old has lousy empire management skills but loves to send units around and just to play the game. I've played a hot seat game where we ally. I develop and research like crazy on Chieftan and gift tech and gold to keep him in business. It was entertaining and he could see the choices I made.

ChaosArbiter-sorry about the JRA. I'm a pediatrician and know it's a bear of a diagnosis.


On the subject of family games, we like Apples to Apples. I found a game caled mad Scientist University in GAmes Magazine that for the right crowd is a riot. The group gets a card with an "insane assignment" suitable for a mad scientist such as take over ther worls, cure the cold, blow up the moon and each player gets an "unstable element" such as hamsters, uranium, pirates or spam and has to articulate a plan to the groiup how to achieve the goal using the item in the most mad scientisty entertaining way possible.

 

[Evil Tyrant]

Hello all.
I've not posted for a while here - I usually play on Monarch (C3C), although I can beat emperor, usually by warmongering in the middle ages to domination/conquest. My 8 year old son is fascinated by watching me play civ, and has taken to starting games on his own. He has the usual starter bad habits: too few workers, poor city placement, wonder addiction, too slow on the REX, even on the lowest difficulty, poor management of happiness and income. I can hopefuly correct most of this, but I am posting to ask what others think will be the best settings for my son to start a serious game on? I don't want to hold his hand too much, but I want him to pick up good management and strategy.

I'm guessing tiny pangaea on chieftan, perhaps Babylon? I think he would enjoy a builder game, as I don't think he has the skills to manage all the variables for a warmonger game yet. I would love to see him win by diplo or space race.

So, any ideas for the easiest set up for a builder win?

Another possible civ might be the Maya. They don't get cheaper temples or libraries, but agricultural and industrious is a strong and versatile combo for both war and peace. I'm not sure what his current play style is, but the javelin thrower's enslavement might also help with the not building enough workers. Even if he doesn't get into any early wars, he could still farm barbarians with them, and seeing how much the extra workers improve his empire may nudge him towards making more of his own workers when he plays other civs.

 

[eldar]

I hope when my daughter starts to want to play Civ, she'll get her tips from me and not her mother! She's only turning 3 in a couple of weeks though so plenty of time yet! Anyway she prefers (watching me play) Zelda on the Wii to Civ.

I also heartily recommend both Settlers & Caracasonne.

 

[Theov]

If you let them play on a computer at that age, it should be with other kids.
In my memory. Playing with other kids at the comodore and the MSX was powerful, playing soccer in the yard also was.

Kids need social interaction as much as they can get.

 

[Fiddlin Nero]

Map size and number of AI opponents, smaller maps are not necessarily easier, fewer opponents gives more time for building. As for the cautions I read above, its got to be better than TV, if you are getting any quality time playing or discussing with your kids, all the better. At 51 I'm sure my mother would still chastise me if she knew how many hours of sleep I've lost to this game.