Bug

satrapper

Warlord
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
Messages
154
cool new subforum karadoc. this aint much of a bug but i just wanted to be the first to start a new thread here :D

in single player, if you start a new game on future era (post satellites) the human player always seems to receive the +1 movement on ships bonus for proving the world is round. at least in multiplayer the ai seems to receive it. unfair advantage for human player??
 
Yeah that seems a bit unfair. I'd guess that behaviour is not unique to K-Mod though, right? I mean, I'd expect it's the same in the unmodded game.

In any case, I'm thinking that the best solution is probably to make it so no one gets the bonus in games like that. The rule could be something like if the world is circumnavigated on the very first turn, then no bonus is given. (Otherwise it will always be Player #1 who gets the bonus, except in simultaneous turn games in which case it should be random.)
 
@GiuseppeIII. Thanks.

Re. the bug. It turns out that the it was my fault after all. When I looked at the code to implement the changes that I described, I found that they were already there. ie. The original code already does exactly what I was saying it should do. So that's nice. -- The reason it stopped working is that I've changed the order of some things that are done between turns (to fix some unrelated problems); in particular, the circumnavigation check is part of a set of things that use to be done at the end of each player's turn but which are now done at the start of each player's turn.

...
It's a simple fix anyway. I'm just owning up to the fact that I'm the one who broke it. :(
 
grrrr, youre always wrecking things. typical! :mad:

hey do you remember i had a couple assert failure popups when debugging with aiautoplay a month or so back? anyway i think i narrowed down the issue to BUG settings. (running debug dll and aiautoplay) i get this popup:

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when i turn on attitude icons in the scoreboard tab of BUG options.

and i get this popup:

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when i enable civ4alerts and tick "worst enemy" in the alerts tab of BUG options.

one other thing, i was playing an mp game at the wkend and my friend successfully bribed an ai to cease a war against another ai. the following turn the aggressor just re-declared war on the other civ again. i've never really seen it before and assumed that the usual 10 turn rule would apply? if it is a bug, apologies for the nebulous information, i dont have a save from before the incident.
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(edit) oh, and just had to say, after finally getting a chance to play an extended game on 1.35, vassalling works good now. great work!
 

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I once saw the AI make peace and then declare war again in the same turn without any outside influence... and after careful examination I decided that it wasn't a bug, but rather just strange behaviour (and I haven't decided if I should fix it or not).

The fact is that the game rules do allow players to have an official cease fire without a peace treaty. The 10 turns of peace is only enforced if a peace treaty is signed, and so without the peace treaty it is possible to make peace and then declare war again without the 10 turn limit.

However the AI will never accept a mere cease fire with a human player; they will only accept peace deals which include either a peace treaty, or capitulation. But apparently they will have ordinary cease fires with other AI players. (And human players are free to accept a cease fire without a peace treaty with other human players.) So, with all that in mind, it probably isn't technically a bug that the AI in your game re declared war on the very next turn; but I do think it's a bit silly.

I think the whole business of paying one AI to make peace with another AI is actually a bit weird. It's effectively a 3-way trade but only two of the parties are involved in the negotiations. It's a unique type of game mechanic which can only be implemented between warring AI players (because otherwise there's no way of knowing whether or not the third player will actually accept peace deal!)

In any case, I think I'll change it so that the AI always arranges a proper peace treaty when accepting one of those 'make peace with X' deals rather than just a cease fire.

--
I'll look into the other things you mentioned some other time.
 
Mr. K, sir

some small questions/thingies:

the "chance of revolt" hover-text percentage (on the city nationality bar in the city screen) is altered by the presence of units of civs other than the city owner. presuming that the mechanics match the text, i think that culture flipping should be only be affected by the city garrison and not by say some foreign units healing in safety for a few turns. especially my own in a foreign friendly city that i covet :)


Example:

in the attached (multiplayer) save, Ulm (holy roman) has a ~5% likelihood of revolt. move out the greek units and the percentage increases to ~11.


the message box that pops up (in single player) when the global warming sustainability threshold is reached doesnt pop up in MP games i think. although the text does appear on screen and in the event viewer. i dunno if this is deliberate? i prefer the explicit warning given from the popup box that you have to click on.

Example available in the attached gamesave. should be next turn.


minor/non-issues:


the event log and on-screen text shows "cityname has revolted and joined the whatever empire" even if you decide to disband the city.

example again in the attached save, Ulm should/may flip in a few turns

minor grammar suggestion:
the LEFT_AT_ALTAR_3 event is the only one that uses "An %s1_civ_adjective" as opposed to "A" (in the event gametext)
less than a third of civs start with a vowel


don't suppose you'd add a short entry to the pedia explaining that 'power' provides +2 unhealthiness.

and under free religion "effects" to explain that each religion provides +1 culture with this civic.

actually, have you ever considered adding an explicit k-mod sub-section to the pedia (rather than just hints) to give a brief explanation of the "main" k-mod features? say, culture, global warming and the religion spread mechanic.

i play mostly with friends on multiplayer and getting k-mod noobs/basic computer users to read a changelog packed with esoteric information is hard. casual civ players' first (only) port of call is the pedia. i think it would really help some people. i know that doesn't mean it's much fun for you to do though!

(edit) damn i see you can't amend thread titles. sorry, i realize probably none of the above are bugs per se, i had hoped to change the title to something more vague.
 

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@zarkon

fair enough, its probably not the best use of karadoc's time. :)

to add a new k-mod page to the default pedia does require a little fiddling with a few things in the sdk though as well as the python and xml. the sevopedia would be a breeze though, i think.

and of course this is karadoc's baby and not some collaborative effort. not sure he'd appreciate some goon from the interwebs sticking his grubby hands into k-mod :p

that said, im pretty sure I (or some other forummer with the knowhow/rep) could create a pedia subsection if karadoc was of a mind to delegate or indeed wanted such a pedia section in the first place.
 
@satrapper
and of course this is karadoc's baby and not some collaborative effort. not sure he'd appreciate some goon from the interwebs sticking his grubby hands into k-mod :p

that said, im pretty sure I (or some other forummer with the knowhow/rep) could create a pedia subsection if karadoc was of a mind to delegate or indeed wanted such a pedia section in the first place.

Exactly - I just think it's a good idea but probably something karadoc is not particularly interested in doing himself I would guess.
 
(edit) this post had been a question on event signs. now it merely stands as a monument to my stupidity. damn.:(

(edit2) i guess if anyone else wonders about the same thing....
i created a world builder save and loaded afterwards as a scenario. in k-mod options i had "show event signs" turned on.
events which happened in the single player game left a sign on plots but the plot value change didnt transfer to the worldbuilder save obviously.

to avoid confusion you can just delete the ### Sign Info ### section at the end of your CivBeyondSwordWBSave save if you create a scenario in this way.
 
Regarding the +1:culture: per religion - that isn't a property of the Free Religion civic, but rather it's an effect of having no state religion. ie. you can get that +1:culture: for every religion regardless of your civics, as long as you don't have a state religion. So I don't think it should be mentioned in the description of Free Religion, but I suppose it could be mentioned in the "game concepts" civilopedia article about Religion, in the State Religion section - but it would probably be a bit out of place in that article as well, because the article isn't really there to describe the details of the game mechanics...

Similarly with the :yuck: from power - there doesn't seem to be an obvious place to put it. Maybe both of those things should each just be put into a loading hint. Those hints already describe a few otherwise undocumented parts of game mechanics.

A special K-Mod section in the civilopedia would probably be good – analogous to the Beyond the Sword section; but I don't really want to write it at the moment, and it would need to be sufficiently vague that I could change some of the game mechanics without having to worry about changing the article all the time.

In general I think the basics of the global warming stuff is pretty intuitive, if you look at the info on the environmental advisor tab. The specifics of how the thresholds are calculated and so on is not so clear, but that's the kind of stuff that I wouldn't really want in the article anyway because it may be changed in the future!

The religion stuff is a bit of a black box though. It would probably be helpful for players to know that they can reduce the chance of a religion being removed from a city by building a temple... and I don't think the game currently tells players that information anywhere at all at the moment.

There are actually a lot of subtle rules about the spread of religion, and I'm not really sure it would be appropriate to put them all into the civiliopedia, because it's mostly stuff that players shouldn't have to worry about anyway unless they're really into micro-managing stuff. ... For example, if you've founded a new religion and you want to spread it as fast as possible, and you have 1 missionary, it's best to use that missionary in a city as far from your holy-city as possible, because cities closer to the holy city have a slightly greater chance of gaining the religion without a missionary -- also, larger cities have a greater chance as well; and cities without any other religion; and so on... On the other hand, you may just want to put the missionary into a city which is capable of building its own missionaries quickly. -- and if you use the missionary on a city which has another religion, there's a chance that the new religion will fail to spread, or that the old one will be removed, and the old one being removed chance is smaller if the city has a temple of that old religion, but if the old one is less likely to be removed, then the new one is actually less likely to spread because it can only fail to spread if the old religion failed to be removed and blah blah blah...

I can just imagine that such a detailed bunch of information might be a bit overwhelming, or cumbersome or something. It's the kind of thing that I imagine might be more suited to an out-of-game wiki or something. (Incidentally, there is an empty wiki for K-Mod on the github page - but I don't intend to use it myself.)


By the way, about the event signs, I don't use those myself so I'm not certain about how they work, but aren't they just the same as normal signs placed in-game? If so, you can delete them with alt+s while in the game. (ie the same button used to create signs manually.) That reminds me... does the :food: bonus that sometimes comes with the K-Mod version of the volcano event add the event sign? I don't think I was paying any attention to the way event signs work when I edited that event, so if I needed to do something special to make the event sign show up, then I probably didn't do it...
 
informative post:thumbsup:

yep that all sounds fair enough. the pedia stuff was mainly an aside though:) the main thrust of my post (#8) was the "chance of revolt" and secondarily, the global warming pop-up in MP games.

and nope the event sign doesn't show for the volcano event adding :food: to a plot. :D
theres a python callback i think, "showlandmarkfromevent".
 
The event sign discussion reminds me of the irritating problem, that event (and normal?) signs are drawn in team games on top of each other in the colors of the team members. This leads to some crazy flickering, because the Z-order of the signs are identical.
Usually the first thing when I load a team game is to deactivate all event signs with ALT-S, so i will see them only in the color of my teammate. So one solution might be to at least store the visibility of single signs somehow.
Better solution of course would be to use Z-order. Deactivation of signs from team members would solve the event sign problem, but would prevent team members from setting custom signs, which is sometimes really nice for simple instructions ("move your f... stack to this pos!").
 
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