Cannons

[Chiefwiggum]

Hello

I think cannons is available too late in the game, cats still rule when I'm using Riflemen and cavs. Any ideas on how I can change it and what techs should it be available from? I seem to remember reading a post about this earlier but I cannot find it.

Thanks

 

[Hyronymus]

I tend to agree. I can already build musketman and grenadier but cannons, no way. I really thought cannons entered the battlefield before grenadiers and such since it was too complicated for 'scientists' to harness the power of gunpowder in something smaller than a cannon.

 

[Soryn Arkayn]

I don't understand how you can complain that Cannons arrive too late when it's entirely up to you how soon you want to research Cannon techs. If you want Cannons you can just select Steel on the Tech Tree from your first turn and you'll research the prereqs until you reach it. It's just:

Mining > Bronze Working > Iron Working > Steel.

The only problem is that Iron Working requires only 200 RUs, whereas Steel requires 2400, so the gap between the two will probably be like 100 turns.

So trying the most direct tech route isn't a great idea, but if you want Cannons the fastest, it's up to you to do the research.

 

[Hyronymus]

As you put it there is no complaining indeed but the problem lies in the relation with gunpowder foot units. That relation is skewed if only because steel is a 19th century invention and cannons first appeared in the Dark Ages.

 

[Chiefwiggum]

Also, by the time I get cannons artillery is just around the corner. Any suggestions?

 

[SPQR300]

Yeah, going for artillery is worth more.

 

[IATyco]

As you put it there is no complaining indeed but the problem lies in the relation with gunpowder foot units. That relation is skewed if only because steel is a 19th century invention and cannons first appeared in the Dark Ages.

But the early cannons were a lot different from and less effective than the later ones. They are more like prototypes.

 

[Chiefwiggum]

I want to make cannons availble with gunpowder. It should require metal casting and engineering and strength should be reduced to 8. The cannons rang over europe far earlier than did the musket, and to have them not be availible until destroyers is silly. Putting them at gunpowder removes the rather odd cavalry+catapults scenario present in the original game. Question is HOW do I change this, what file should I edit?

Thanks in advance

 

[Kinseek]

So is it possible to beeline to Iron Working and then construct the Oracle, giving you a free tech where you can select Steel and get a huge advantage?

 

[OG_Pieps]

I am convinced that in a couple of days the modders will offer a unit which is between the cat and the cannon.

 

[Iceman_IX]

Yes, Cannons are a unit that are stupid to go after and poorly positioned in the tech tree. I have never actually employed them. Artillery units in general are a HUGE factor in the game to take over cities that there should be some median between catapults (which you get as one of your first real military units) and cannons (which you almost certainly are going to research about 3/4s of the way through your game.

I was thinking this very same thing in my last game as I was trying to wage war during the early gunpowder phase and didn't have similar artilerry peices.

There should just be another unit called the Howitzer and have it come out in the modern era... then move Cannon to the Renaissance period and Artillery down to the Industrial era.

 

[yoshi74]

Depends on the way you crawl through the tech tree. Sometimes i could research artillery directly after getting steal, sometimes i got faster to steel and it took so time to get to artillery and i actually used the cannons.

Due to the open tech tree it often occurs that some things arrive at a very unhistorical point. I think thats not bad after all. It makes some pretty interesting tech choices. If you want cannons go after it long term, and its pretty sure you can actually use them some time till arti arrives.

But i agree that there should be a form of earlier cannons coming with muskets (which btw. go even faster obsolete, grenadiers almost always come exactly one tech later and are better in any way and not much more expansive).

I'am pretty sure we will see these in an expansion pack. Don't know why the number of artillery units was toned down from conquest-expansion, except to sell them again to their custumer in a expansion.

 

[Psyringe]

So is it possible to beeline to Iron Working and then construct the Oracle, giving you a free tech where you can select Steel and get a huge advantage?

AFAIR you also need Chemistry for cannons.

 

[Gogf]

Cannons aren't available late, the game just lacks a "middle siege unit." In other words, the trebuchet needs to be added back.

 

[Chiefwiggum]

Any mod fr*aks that know where to edit the cannon tech requirement as stated above?

Gogf - I agree

 

[narmox]

Well I'm looking at

Assets\XML\Units\CIV4UnitInfos.xml

and it seems each unit has a

<TechTypes>
<PrereqTech>TECH_ARCHERY</PrereqTech>
<PrereqTech>NONE</PrereqTech>
<PrereqTech>NONE</PrereqTech>
</TechTypes>

section. I assume that's where you define up to 3 techs required to build a unit Now you just need to look in Assets\XML\Technologies\somethingorother to find out what the gunpowder tech is (probably TECH_GUNPOWDER )

Copy that xml file to CustomAssets\.... folder (with the same structure as the civ4 installation folders) and modify it there, I think that's how you're supposed to mod. It will use customAssets instead of original ones.

(EDIT: note that I haven't tested this at all, this is just a cursory look at the game files...)

 

[Good Omens]

Due to the open tech tree it often occurs that some things arrive at a very unhistorical point. I think thats not bad after all. It makes some pretty interesting tech choices. If you want cannons go after it long term, and its pretty sure you can actually use them some time till arti arrives.

Just finished a game in which I didn't get Paper until the mid 1800's. Apparently the Magna Carta and Declaration of Independence were carved into clay tablets.

 

[panzooka]

if u use catapults for their collateral damage, try chinese UU Chu ko nu, which replaces crossbowman, they starts with 2 first strike (NOT 1-2 first strike) and gets 50% bonus against melee. great for killing stacks on enemy.

i also agree that cannons should come about the same time as maceman,

 

[Chiefwiggum]

Just finished a game in which I didn't get Paper until the mid 1800's. Apparently the Magna Carta and Declaration of Independence were carved into clay tablets.

LOL Nice one

 

[Meglomania]

Agree completely, it's not just cannons though, I really don't see any reason to go for any of the Industrial era units (especially Ironclads and riflemen) when your going for a military win when the modern era units are such an improvement and only 1-2 techs away from their Industrial era counterparts (and are relatively cheap techs too, so much more logical for a military player to grab the military techs and backfill the economic ones while he is rolling out his new army for a blitz style invasion). The only point I can see to invest in them is if you are need to capture some heavily defended oil, which I havn't needed to do yet as I've always had oil or could easily acquire it with a crappy new city.