Citizen Discussion: Reinstate the 'Traditional' powers of MA and CM?

[Strider]

The President, who should be tracking our national interest anyway, already has sufficient power to keep us from going off the deep end. It is as simple as stopping play until appropriate instructions are posted. No further powers are needed.

Yes, but it is not the Presidents job to correct every govonors mistake, espicially if we have 5 or 6 govonors and 50+ cities.

 

[Cyc]

Yes, but it is not the Presidents job to correct every govonors mistake, espicially if we have 5 or 6 govonors and 50+ cities.

Exactly, Strider. Just as it is not the job of the MA or CM to be correcting any Governors Instructions. That's the point here.

 

[Zarn]

Actually, I believe the governor him/herself should be able to override their own queues, if something happens in chat, which would require a change in queue... but not a department head. They have enough power. I believe we should use a federal system rather than an unitary system. National government is more powerful, but provinces have and should retain certain rights (queues, drafting, etc).

 

[Strider]

Exactly, Strider. Just as it is not the job of the MA or CM to be correcting any Governors Instructions. That's the point here.

Actually, I DO think it is the job of the Culture minister and Military Advisor to correct mistakes that may cost us the city.

I also see no reason why we have to split all of the departments up perfectly. Let them overlap, allow science to post a poll to raise the science slider, allow foreign affairs to gift small lump sums of gold to Civilizations to improve ranking (if it doesn't supersede with trades orders). Currently, all of the leaders just mess with there department, and do not work with the other leaders and departments to get the best out of everything. Overlapping the departments somewhat will force the leaders to work together.

 

[Cyc]

I understand what you're saying, Strider, and I will not discount the value of team play and cooperation. But cutting and slashing on a judgement call during a Turn Chat is far from the goals of the Demogame. True, it was done in some of the early DGs, but we found that did not work. Eventually, there was abuse of the system. I will not condone it now, when we have so many new players who are unaware of this proposal's pitfalls.

 

[Zarn]

Actually, I DO think it is the job of the Culture minister and Military Advisor to correct mistakes that may cost us the city.

I also see no reason why we have to split all of the departments up perfectly. Let them overlap, allow science to post a poll to raise the science slider, allow foreign affairs to gift small lump sums of gold to Civilizations to improve ranking (if it doesn't supersede with trades orders). Currently, all of the leaders just mess with there department, and do not work with the other leaders and departments to get the best out of everything. Overlapping the departments somewhat will force the leaders to work together.

I disagree. There would be alot of toe stepping, instead.

 

[Strider]

I disagree. There would be alot of toe stepping, instead.

Toe stepping is easily fixed, a CoC can be put in place (although I would prefer not to have one), or even better, just lay down clearly what a departments powers and restrictions are. IE:

* Science may organize tech trades as long as it does not interfere with Trade's orders, unless a vote by the people decide otherwise

*Foreign Affairs may arrange for gifts of gold to civilizations as long as it does not interfere with Science and Trades orders, unless a vote by the people decide otherwise.

Worded badly, but it serves it's purpose.

 

[Civanator]

So many ideas in this thread, I think I might refrain from posting as I am for and against this 'tradition'.

 

[blackheart]

Overlapping departmental powers... ah yes I can see the future power struggles there.

 

[Falcon02]

For me this is hardly a "Tradition"

When I was Military Advisor/Leader there's only one time where in chat I requested such a build queue change (the result of my only Public Investigation). Under the circumstances a Military unit was being built and I requested it to be switched to another military unit/building, since at the time we didn't need any more of that unit type. In the end, I was only found innocent on a technicality due to the above clause, (there was a single enemy unit in that province). This made me feel like both I and the citizenry were both cheated out of real justice. I wasn't truely vindicated (my own reasoning had nothing to do with that loophole) and those who had problems with what I did neither got punishment nor were overruled by the basis of the action and not a loophole.

With only my vague memory of the insident and no desire to dig up that PI thread, I personally am opposed to reinstating these powers for several reasons.
-My sence of disgust at the procedings of my own PI.
-Potential fighting it could cause (just cause it didn't happen before doesn't mean it won't, at least not in the sence being described in this thread)
-Giving Advisors too much power over Governors

IF... i stress that IF these were to be reinstated I would have to insist that at least for the Military Advisor, they should only have power of changing a Military Unit/Building -> Military Unit/Building. ie. if we have 50 Tanks and 5 Infantry (not including out dated units, we could have 20 muskets, 15 Riflemen, along with 20 Cavalry) and a city is building a Tank it would be best to switch it to Infantry cause we would have more then enough tanks at the time.