Civilization 6: Weak Civs -> Ideas

[William_M99]

I found that some of the civs, especially the first few, are on the weaker side compared to civs like Norway and China. Some examples of these weaker civs are America, Germany, France, etc. In this thread I was hoping to grab the attention of the devs (though they might not care) and get people to give their ideas on the weaker civ and possible buffs.

An example would be with France, a simple buff that would go along with historical traits is a buff directed towards luxury resources. France is well known for its luxuries, culture, and its colonies around the world that refined and popularized luxuries. A buff like maybe extra culture and faith from each luxury resource or extra culture, science and gold from each luxury resource on DIFFERENT CONTINENTS than Frances home.

This is my first post ever, tell me if I did something wrong.

 

[Martinus]

I wouldn't say Germany is weaker than Norway.

Germany is a powerhouse and possibly one of the strongest if not the strongest civ. Norway is interesting but for someone like me (peaceful builder on Pangea) it offers almost nothing.

 

[William_M99]

I wouldn't say Germany is weaker than Norway.

Germany is a powerhouse and possibly one of the strongest if not the strongest civ. Norway is interesting but for someone like me (peaceful builder on Pangea) it offers almost nothing.

I see your point. Going with your Pangea problem, they should add more incentives with settling one the sea, because right now there are almost just downsides to settling on the coast. If an incentive is given to settle next to the coast, Norway may actually still be a viable enemy even on Pangea maps.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Maybe this thread should wait to the release of the game because then we will actually be playing the game and can make our conclusions.

 

[DJ_Tanner]

Nothing "wrong", but it is a bit much to call them weak at this point. Although a lot of people seem to really, really discount any mid-late game civ bonuses. I am think they will be sizeable power jump that really makes everyone have that "OP" feel that some of my favorite game have as a balance mechanic.

This is the first civ game where the civ choice seems to REALLY matter. As such, I think certain civs are going to look much MUCH stronger when they fall in line with your personal playstyle, because again that is going to matter so much more now.

 

[William_M99]

Maybe this thread should wait to the release of the game because then we will actually be playing the game and can make our conclusions.

If we wait until the release and after, it maybe too late to want to change anything (yes, I understand that there are patches, but these things are better solved before release).

 

[GoodSarmatian]

I agree that France seems weak because they don't seem to have anything going for them before the Medieval Era, but America and Germany are really strong.

America's Founding Fathers takes some time to be useful, but the home continent combat bonus makes barbarian management and early conquest much easier.

Germany only really shines after you research Apprenticeship, but the UA and UD combo is almost insane. Unique Districts don't count against the district per population limit which gives them practically two possible extra districts per city and let them outproduce pretty much every civ of similar size.

The only civs that I would call weak compared to the rest are France, England, and possibly Spain if they fail to found a religion (but then you would be playing Spain wrong).
India and Kongo could also be pretty bad if you're unlucky enough to start alone on a small continent, but that rarely happens.

 

[Martinus]

I agree that France seems weak because they don't seem to have anything going for them before the Medieval Era,

Well, they get the Gossip bonus. We haven't really seen it in action, but depending on how it plays out, it can be useful. For example, in some games it looked like you can get parts of map or location of enemy capitals through Gossip.

 

[William_M99]

I agree that France seems weak because they don't seem to have anything going for them before the Medieval Era, but America and Germany are really strong.

America's Founding Fathers takes some time to be useful, but the home continent combat bonus makes barbarian management and early conquest much easier.

Germany only really shines after you research Apprenticeship, but the UA and UD combo is almost insane. Unique Districts don't count against the district per population limit which gives them practically two possible extra districts per city and let them outproduce pretty much every civ of similar size.

The only civs that I would call weak compared to the rest are France, England, and possibly Spain if they fail to found a religion (but then you would be playing Spain wrong).
India and Kongo could also be pretty bad if you're unlucky enough to start alone on a small continent, but that rarely happens.

Ok, I see your point. So maybe we should look at some possible buffs for some of the civs that you stated. I don't want to seem like I want to make some civs OP, it is just that I feel some of these civs are going to turn out like India or Venice from civ 5; no one liked or played them except for wanting a challenge.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Well, they get the Gossip bonus. We haven't really seen it in action, but depending on how it plays out, it can be useful. For example, in some games it looked like you can get parts of map or location of enemy capitals through Gossip.

Hmm, I'm not convinced. It doesn't look like it will be actually useful.

Ok, I see your point. So maybe we should look at some possible buffs for some of the civs that you stated. I don't want to seem like I want to make some civs OP, it is just that I feel some of these civs are going to turn out like India or Venice from civ 5; no one liked or played them except for wanting a challenge.

What ? Venice was awesome ! It just required a slightly different playstyle.
You didn't need to worry about building Settlers and could immediately start to build wonders, and after buying three or four CS you could make your capital insanely large and productive with internal trade routes and still rake in huge amounts of cash through external trade. You could buy buildings in your national wonder cost didn't go up.
If played right, Venice (the city) was the industrial, cultural and scientific powerhouse and Venice (the civ) could afford huge armies and navies.

I don't really think buffs are needed at this point.
India and Kongo without neighbors ? A terrible start is a terrible start. It happens. Start over.
Spain without religion ? You're doing it wrong. Might as well play Norway on Pangaea.

 

[leif erikson]

Moderator Action: Moved to Ideas and Suggestions.

 

[Nixalo]

We have to see how snowbally an early civ gets before we call any of them weak.

On the player side, experience says early game civs and civs with powerful UAs that work in all eras are the strongest. Late game civs tend to be weaker but human know how to use them.

On the AI side, history suggests the AI only knows how to use warmonger and science civs or civs with simple strong uniques which require no planning.

So our views are colored. We all know German is a beast in human hands but dubious if you let CivV's AI control it. Probably the same with France.

 

[jsciv69]

To be truthful America seems to be very exciting to play. TR is a bridge from a mostly rural nation to the ultimate industrial power. And in the later eras which are the most important, America begins to flourish. So it will be more than a thrill to speak softly and carry the biggest stick of all.

 

[j51]

Welcome to CFC William!

America, England, and Spain look cool IMO and very flavorful.

The only civ that seems weak as of now is France. Maybe it won't be weak once we play the game. Either way, their special ability is super generic. They need a little something to spice it up. Maybe a bit of a military buff? I miss the tough France of pre-BNW CiV and the big blue blob of EU4. Would have to rename the ability though, but that's easy. Maybe name just flat out name it "Élan," and make it something that ties cultural production and warfare?

Then again, I do love your luxury idea, but I wouldn't be surprised if Firaxis is holding that for the Dutch. (They already gave England their dang unit!)

 

[William_M99]

Welcome to CFC William!

America, England, and Spain look cool IMO and very flavorful.

The only civ that seems weak as of now is France. Maybe it won't be weak once we play the game. Either way, their special ability is super generic. They need a little something to spice it up. Maybe a bit of a military buff? I miss the tough France of pre-BNW CiV and the big blue blob of EU4. Would have to rename the ability though, but that's easy. Maybe name just flat out name it "Élan," and make it something that ties cultural production and warfare?

Then again, I do love your luxury idea, but I wouldn't be surprised if Firaxis is holding that for the Dutch. (They already gave England their dang unit!)

Ok, I guess then that most of us agree that France is a little on the weaker side. I loved playing France in civ 5 for the culture, and I feel that civ 6 France is missing some culture buffs, sure you have the chateau, but that comes much later. I really hope they are not holding it for the Netherlands because it seems fit France perfectly and plus France is on the weak side so this would actually make them a viable fighting civ.

 

[William_M99]

So a lot of you are saying that most of the civs that I have listed are not weak. Lets say I agree with you, but you have to admit some of the cvs in civ 6 are obviously less powerful than others. I just want a balanced game where each civ has a viable chance to do well.

 

[Atlas627]

France seems weak because their most consistent source of power, the Chateau, is something we don't know the numbers on.

But I agree that they could use a *little* bit more military oomph, in a way flavorful to France.

Luxuries -> combat is already an Aztec ability.
Home continent -> combat is already on their unique unit, which is honestly where it belongs (Napoleonic era)

How about something that represents France's strong transition from Feudal to Absolute Monarchy? The long tradition of aristocracy with military experience?

"When a unit is produced in an Encampment, it receives +3xp per adjacent Chateau" or something like that? Makes the where-do-I-Chateau question a little more challenging and flexible. You can't get them all adjacent to Wonders, luxuries, AND encampments...

 

[bbbt]

France really depends on what 'diplomatic visibility' actually reveals, since we haven't seen much. If it's information on what techs/civics civs have, what wonders are being built, stuff like that, it could be pretty useful (potentially more so in multiplayer!) to know your opponent's progress and what path they are on. If it's mostly vague stuff, maybe not so useful.

 

[Vincent55]

It may 'seem' like France is weak but we ain't playtesting.

If we finally see the numbers and realize that the Chateau is a very strong culture generator and that overall France is at least top three in culture, then that civ doesn't seem so weak anymore.

Culture is a form of science in Civ 6 which means its about as valuable as beakers, now.

 

[Siptah]

Doesn't get France tourism bonus for all wonders? Depending on how large that is, this might be edge needed to win a cultural victory or maybe even give you a clear lead in this victory type from medieval times onwards.