Civilization Attitudes?

[CaptTuttle]

Hello
First time poster, just found this site and love it! Thought I was the only one who played CivII this insistently but now I see I am ok!

Question on how other Civs(AI) attitude are developed towards your civilization.
Besides the two obvious influences I know of, knowledge trade and giving up to the AI demands when necessary, what are the other influences?

The reason I ask is a game a while back, “King, large, 7, raging horde” I had made contact with 5 of the 6 AI’s. I was in the middle of the pact due to some lousy play on my part, but was peaceful and getting along with the other 5 civilizations for the most part. Along comes the Nuclear age and civilization #6 starts nuking the daylights out of me. It will not negotiate and isn’t even taking the cities it nukes. Not sure what drove that “hatred” of my civilization and would like a little more insight into how that all works.
Thanks!

 

[bellisaurius]

tip 1

Have some nukes of your own. The AI's attitude toward you is partly a reflection of your military power. Otherwise, give him stuff. However, the AI seems to have a short memory for gifting.

If your power is "supreme" you will have the AI attacking you a lot. This is to be expected.

Or, if your power is less, you will probably have some of the AI's willing to ally with you. This is good, as they can't attack you. Hopefully they'll declare war on the big guy as well.

It seems that after some point, the AI refuses to talk anymore. Normally, you can get him at the negotiating table after you take a city. There seems to be some sort of bloddlust point in the 1900's where negotiations don't occur.

 

[funxus]

The AI usually always hates you, and treaty or not they will eventually break the peace. When your power (get it from foreign minister) is supreme, the AI will start signing pacts against you, and sometimes you haven't even met the civ. I think your reputation gets lower when you bribe cities, and trespass, sneak attack etc. This will make it worse, but in the long run it is very hard to maintain good relations with the AI You can also gift money and techs voluntarily, or get the UN to give yourself a break for a turn or two.
I've also experienced these frenetic nuke attacks, and from many different civs at the same time. Nowadays I'd usually give up a game if I discover I'm that far behind in the tech race that I can't eliminate or weaken most civs before modern/nuke era.

 

[CaptTuttle]

Thanks for info bellisurius, funxus

Attitude and a just finished game.
I am starting to think I shouldn’t waste any time on coddling the AI’s attitude, because in the end it makes no difference anyway. The following game description supports bellisurius AI’s bloodlust in the 1900’s

King, medium board, Random, Random, plus my first attempt to build an SSC. Which, at King level, almost feels illegal with how fast you advance, having now used it J

So I entered the 1900’s with only the Mongols and Spanish still standing. The Chinese, made me, finish them off with a policy of sneak attack, lose a city, UN truce, and then attack me again. So now having captured the UN and the SSC I was way out in front. Launched a fully completed Spaceship in 1957, no competition, and switched to military build up. In 1963, no provocation and completely out matched the Mongols attacked. Their cities fell like leaves in the fall and so the next turn the Spanish, whom I though would be the first attacker, also decided to commit suicide. There just isn’t any chance against a fleet of Stealth Fighters when you have one or two prop fighters only. Landed AC in 67 and tonight for fun will play the two or three turns needed to finish them off.
So Clearly there is a point when the AI just says get ‘em, no mater what the circumstances. Also there was no attempt to negotiate, even after the AI cities fell, so clearly the programming has a go out in a blaze of glory thread programmed in.

 

[ElephantU]

Once you launch your spaceship the AI has no other option but to attack to try to keep you from winning. If they can take your capital your spaceship will crash. So expect serious attacks right after launching and prepare for it, especially around the capital. Move it inland if it is on the coast.

In general you can measure each AI civs attitude toward you from your Foreign Advisor screen (F3). Giving them things tends to improve their attitude; demanding tribute or refusing their requests tends to lower their attitude. The worst thing you can do is break a peace treaty or an alliance: not only does that civ never forget, but the other civs will look at you as untrustworthy for centuries to come. If you want to go to war, try to goad the AI into attacking you instead.

Another way to be friendly is to be so small they feel sorry for you. This is often referred to as OCC, for One City Challenge. You can tell your Power Rating from the F3 screen too; if you are Pathetic they are more likely to be kind to you. Usually...

Perhaps you could post some of the things you did to Civ#6 earlier in the game, and the Attitude they had toward you at the time? Had you ever broken a treaty or alliance with them?

 

[CaptTuttle]

Ohhhhhh! I did not know once you launched the loss of the capital would cause loss of the spaceship. Thought it only applied up to launch. Glad I didn’t learn that one the hard way. Thanks ElephantU

As far as breaking treaties you are talking to mister goodie two shoes here, to many years of playing the game Empire with no peace options, I try and launch my ship instead of bloodlust unless I am just rolling along and it happens. And they start it in the first place!

As far as this game: Hope this isn’t too long?
The Mongols shared the same continent but only 10% or 15% of the landmass. A good choke point on a mountain held them at bay. First contact had good trade, second one I refused threat for knowledge and they attacked. Sustained several attacks at mountain but then we made nice. Other then caravans and freight, mine only, there was no further contact other then the occasional request for knowledge, which I gave into occasionally. I didn’t check the foreign minister but the Mongols came to me for a permanent treaty. The only transgression I can think of, not sure how the AI decides the borders, was after the Chinese fell they had an undeveloped spit of land that I built on near “8-10 moves” the Mongols. Before I built a city there was a fortress I tried to disband but it was reported to belong to the Mongols, I guess the AI had annexed the territory? After I built my cities the fortress was disbanded without incident. Could that be why they struck first? They had no cities on that land mass.

The Spanish, whom I expected conflict with, is another story. Early industrial I was building up the last of my continent. In between two cities the Spanish placed one of theirs. Then before I even planed to goad them into a fight they attacked. I pushed them off there as well as a 4 city island close by before they had enough. Later on they started filling up that island will all sorts of hardware but I didn’t have the option to ask them to leave. I made my war plans, while the Chinese went bye bye on the other side. Now I had the UN and was in a quandary, I didn’t want to attack, but couldn’t goad them into war because of the UN. So I thought I had to just wait them out. I did buy one small city they built in old China but otherwise all was quite. They went fundy so the military was abundant if not advanced. In retribution for having units around my cities I had several partisans around theirs. I ignored all requests to meet as all they wanted was to move my troops away. After launch, and future technology #1, which expires the UN I believe???, I was loaded for bear. The Spanish had a fleet I could have taken naps between their moves so I thought it was going to be them first but I was wrong as the Mongols went first. It’s always the quite ones isn’t it???

 

[Old n Slow]

The UN doesn't expire to the best of my knowledge.

Starlifter & others recommend sending a lone freight into potential enemy territory. If they are hostile, they may be unable to refuse the bait of an easy victory. Wandering partisans may be too strong.

Another trick is to build a micro city within their area -- defend it as poorly as you want; and if that doesn't do the trick, pillaging the land may add to the potential bad feelings (I'm sure there is a way to do this & still maintain a Spotless Rep.)

 

[Kamilian]

Its true. The AI will hate you no matter what. I had a large empire stretching from east to west and center to far north. The Germans had a city on a continent just north of my core continent that they captured when we allied against another civ during what I call World War 1 for that game. The rest of that continent was mine except for two cities on an eastern peninsula that the Greeks controlled. Sudenly, my longitme German allies canceled it. The first turn that we were just in a peace treaty, they began making pacts wiht Babbylon, with whom I was feuding with, and Greece, who also canceled their alliance wiht me for no reason right after WW1 brought in a Fascist gov't to their empire, which was my rival in size and power. As soon as Germany gained nucler superpower status, their attitued towards me got even worse. I feared a nuclear betrayal, so I attempted to bribe them back into alliance. They took my gifts all the time with glee but refused to ally and continued to make Berlin Pacts with Babylon and Fascist Greece and so basically I was trapped between 2 hostile nuclear powers (Greece made its mark on my empire - nuked my capital before it finished its own SDI) and a minor power that I was easily occupying and annexing with my Howitzers and Stealth Fighters. Basically, they wont like you much if you have captured other civs for yourself, only letting the others gain one or two cities.

 

[Old n Slow]

Other thoughts added to the above:

Game version -- Classic has gentler attitudes than MGE -- In a replay of last month’s GOTM, I’m working through an OCC method of play -- first time I used MGE & watched my ally go from worshipful to hostile in one turn (with no action on my part). On the replay, I’m using Classic and have two allies giving me gifts every third/fourth turn.

Playing level -- A couple of times I’ve danced on the chieftain level & seen an initial contact end up with a free embassy. On the other hand, at Emperor level, I’ve seen initial contacts starting as hostile & ending up worse; not to mention the “non-contacts” of having a yet to be met foreign civ’s boat chew up one of my settlers.

In a recent post Andu Indorin notes the general civ activity adjusting with the discovery of RR & Industrialization -- they gang up together and research better -- making the pressure greater for the player (therefore plan a bit ahead before jumping into those avances…)

Then of course some civs are a little more antagonistic (militaristic) than others (civilized -- mainly in classic at mid levels or lower).