( CONCEPT ) Suggestion for England

[Azzebox]

Being a big fan of England, I would like to share with you a suggestion regarding a possible rework of this civilization. Indeed, England is much weaker than on Civilization V, especially because the naval battles have become less important. The great weakness of England lies mainly in its situational aspect: strong on some maps, useless on others. The production of boats has little impact on a map of Pangea or continents, and it can even be dangerous in the sense that the boats cannot defend us from the terrestrial aggressions of the neighbors of our continent, which forces us to form a land army by abandoning the maritime boosts of England. So I offer you a nice bonus, which in addition to strengthening the maritime and defensive role of England, has a historical reality. Indeed, what made England strong? Above all its location, namely an island, which made assaults against it impossible unless you had a good navy.

The role of ships here makes perfect sense because they can, in addition to attacking other cities, defend the British territory from an enemy fleet. So a bonus "British Isles" which, a bit like Kupe, determines the starting location of England could be interesting. For example: "England always begins on an island (minimum x cells) of its continent." This could give her less situational power, grant a defensive role to the boats and make her less vulnerable at the start of the game. That said, it will always remain relatively weak at the start of the game (like real England) and counters like the Vikings or Spain (which have very good fleets) will always remain as effective against it or even more. What do you think ?

 

[Lord Lakely]

I think you're looking in the right direction. The main issue with England's design is that Firaxis were looking for a civ to showcase their brand-new continents mechanic with, without taking into account that continents suck and don't matter in 95% of the games.

The second issue is that Eleanor leads medieval England but has access to... a renaissance boat and an industrial era ability? It's not a bad combo in practice (and a better one than Freleanor, who is one of the weaker leaders imo) but it makes no historical sense.

If you really want a design to work, especially in a game such as this, you need to look at what made the entire ~civilization as a whole~ tick and the best way to do so is by looking at the geography.

England's position on the island of Britannia may be a good way to look at it, but I think the answer should be forests. England were able to build large cities and the world's largest navy because they had access to the right resource, wood, in large enough quantities so they could facilitate their growing population whilst simultaneously maintain a large navy to ward off invading enemies. Forestry, and the management thereof was the axis around which England's entire existence spun.

I think their CUA should reflect that somehow. Better yields from chopping, better lumber mills, woods adjacency bonuses to certain districts (IZ, RND, Neighbourhood).

 

[Azzebox]

I totally agree with your analysis. Eleonor's gameplay doesn't really make sense with England and Firaxis undoubtedly wanted to experiment with the concept of "double leader" at all costs, without worrying about gameplay that really corresponds to civilization. After on wood and resources it is true, but I think that the construction of boats would never have been so useful and powerful if England had not been on an island. It is one of these countries, like Russia (which had a boost as for its position thanks to the doubled damage of blizzards on the enemies ), which thanks to its position is unassailable. Napoleon and Hitler could not invade the England precisely because it is an island and its boats are so powerful that they would destroy any attempt to attack. This is how I think England should be played, respecting one of its greatest advantages: the location.

 

[The googles do nothing]

This is how I think England should be played, respecting one of its greatest advantages: the location.

There needs to be a Pangea + islands map type.

 

[Zaarin]

The second issue is that Eleanor leads medieval England but has access to... a renaissance boat and an industrial era ability? It's not a bad combo in practice (and a better one than Freleanor, who is one of the weaker leaders imo) but it makes no historical sense.

I see this claim a lot, but I'd like to note that Freleanor was the number two power in my last game (after myself) and she had Bolivar for a neighbor.

 

[GenyaArikado]

Engleanor was probably designed with the British Museum UA in mind. But imo she should have had her own UU for flavor sake, either a knight or a trobadour

 

[Zaarin]

Engleanor was probably designed with the British Museum UA in mind. But imo she should have had her own UU for flavor sake, either a knight or a trobadour

Back when we first learned she was going to be in the game I figured she was set for an early Rock Band replacement. It seems like a missed opportunity.