COTM 02 First Spoiler: End Of Ancient age

[ainwood]

This is the first spoiler for Conquest 02: Netherlands

To qualify for this spoiler, you must have:

1. Explored your starting continent fully, and have contact with any civs that started on the home continent (or their remains).
2. Be researching a middle-age tech.

Due to the fact that we are playing a Seafaring civ, exploration will probably be a bit more extensive than what may normally have been achieved by the end of the ancient age.

However, I would still like you to limit your discussions of your initial tactics to the starting continent. Please be advised that due to this limitation, I will open the second spoiler slightly earlier than normal (probably around the 8th).

You are free to post screenshots, but please do not post screenshots showing middle-age or later resources; suicide galley or curragh routes (successful or otherwise); other major landmasses. You may post screenshots that show minor islands offshore from the starting landmass.

With the massive amount of discussion generated by such an innocent starting screenshot, I'm hoping to see some good discussions about the starting moves in particular - what went to plan, what didn't, what you would have done in hindsigh.

 

[valamas]

PREDITOR

Initially, I thought I was on a small island. I thought, man, am i aiming too high playing the Preditor version. To date I have only had one successful Emporer game win (personal game), it must have been luck. So far with this GOTM, my second ever (i did the first Conquest GOTM only) I am doing well. I have felt like the most vulnerable nation of all time and hope to rely on the seafaring gifts of the dutch (which is also my heritage) and to defend my lands with some strategically placed units to defeat ship landings.

The other thing I didn't do since my previous emporer attempts, which I think will help me win this Emporer version was not build any buildings like barracks at the start, only library then market place then temple and did not defend my cities at all with any units. The AI just seems to grow too quick at this level to engage in these luxuries too early and be able to keep up in tech and money and defence.

The game has been so nail biting and exciting. I call out "YES!" when i win a must win battle with my wife asking if my game is going well from time to time.

For my opening move, i moved my settler down one pace to take advantage of having two whale tiles. Later I made the free palace jump to a city in the moddle of my continent.

I also made sure i took the two islands to the south as I have a habit of waiting too long and the AI takes them. I was rewarded on both!

I didn't bother to settle on the ice area and decided to defend the chokepoint with a city.

I was also decimated at some stage by the raging barbarians. I had lost two settlers and two workers to these hoards! I don't want to even mention the number of warriors and archers i lost I have to learn to treat my settlers like the treasure fleet and defend them! Those horse barbarians with two moves can be a killer.

I found with the terrain that the mountain tiles needed to be supported with irrigated green tiles instead of using the mine green / irrigate brown rule. I found myself re-doing tiles and having to change government (Monarchy) to get these bonuses.

I did find it hard to place my cities and should have taken greater care as I have missed a tile that will never get used and have a city where 70% of the tiles are being used by other cities.

From the start of the game I traded techs well and kept up. I had a great start and made lots of money, the middle of my ancient era did not go so well and was poor and felt meek until the end of the ancient era i felt strong and rich again.

These emotions made the game exciting and thank the GOTM staff for holding these games. I only have time to play one game a month and to be forced to play and experience the ups and downs without giving up and starting a new map is very rewarding.

 

[bed_head7]

I went and settled on the bonus grassland, because I knew I didn't have the stomach to go more than a couple of spaces with my settler. In fact, I had never even considered moving more than one space, or two if absolutely necessary, until I came to this forum. I think I built granary first, then a settler, but at this point, I can't remember. Anyway, after the first settler, I headed north, naturally, and laughed when I settled six spaces away, on the hill next to the river. In the pregame discussion, six seemed to be the key number, the farthest anyone would go. I just pumped out settlers and curraghs for a little while, because I hadn't had too much trouble with barbarians.

Finally, I decided to build barracks and then some warriors (I will need to get over my aversion to regulars early on if I am going to play at higher levels), and was shocked by how poorly my veteran warriors and archers performed against barbarians. Twice in a row, I lost an archer to a warrior, though the warrior was fortified on a mountain. Maybe the barbarian bonus is lower at monarch than I remembered. Anyway, I also grabbed the islands to my south, as well as some of the tundra, hoping that it would pay off with oil later on. But I unfortunately lost one worker, one setter, and an archer to a large barbarian encampment, and in losing this settler, lost out on one chunk of my continent.

I decided to build a wonder in the capital, because I feel like the palace jump is an exploit, but was tempted to do so anyway. I figured any wonder with some value would keep me from abandoning, so I began work on the colossus, which seemed like it would be most valuable in terms of cost of any of the wonders I had a shot it. Of course, I missed, and ended up with the Great Wall, which wasn't much of a deterrant against abandonment. But I held onto Amsterdam as the capital anyway.

 

[HellboundHeathcliff]

Edit: OPEN

I did exactly as i planned. Settle the BG and begin a road while researching writing. After the tile was mined, the worker moved NW to see what he would see and after he saw what he saw, he decided to start a road inland.

First build was a carragh to start exploring SE to see why that extra coast was there. It then explored CCW around the island until it got distracted.

The first settler was built 1 turn after hitting size 3. It decided to do a little exploring inland and found that hill in the center of the island next to the river. That was where it settled and became my settler factory. Albeit not a very good one.

I also found the shape of the land to not be city placement friendly. In hindsight, if i had settled my first settler on the northern silks, my city placement would have developed differently. I doubt i would have had as many cities in the end though. As soon as MM was available, i settled the islands to the SE asap.

It's difficult to talk about tech development and keep within the guidelines of this thread. I met some other civs extremely early that were not on the starting continent and expect most everyone else to have met at least 4 before the middle ages.

Anyway... i screwed up and traded away writing before i should have and therefore was not the first to get philosophy. That meant researching Republic which would be a big set back compared to those who got it free. It's tough watching the AI load up on techs while researching a few expensive ones. I got greedy and think a certain AI civ popped philosophy from a hut.

The attack bonus against barbs is only 100% on monarch. I lost a couple regular warriors trying to take a camp on the gold hills to the south and decided to build archers instead. My archers got me a few camps until they got killed in the uprising.

I tried for the Colossus but got beat to it. The lighthouse was the only other AA wonder i even tried for and got it.

I can't seem to get a screenshot of my empire without showing stuff not intended for this thread.

Entered Middle Ages in 210 BC with 12 cities, the Great Lighthouse, and contact with everyone.

 

[Sandman2003]

Open

I moved the worker to the hill first for a look before deciding to do anything. From the pre-game discussion, it sounded like some were not even going to do this, but surely it is worth the cost of two worker moves for the knowledge of what lies beyond. My worker saw the mountains with a hint of water, so I decided to move the settler off the penninsular. I almost founded at the foot of the mountains by the dyes, but decided the worker could have a look from the hill first. Saw the moo moo, and that was it, walk twice more, found in 3650BC - the latest I ever have. I wonder if it will be worth it. Set research to writing at 50 turns. Worker roading to the moo moo.
3400BC - warrior produced
3100BC - Finish third warrior, start granary.
2310BC - After stupidly letting Amsterdam riot twice, settler due next turn, and can be produced on a four turn cycle!
1650BC - Contact with the [ANOTHERCIV]. The [ANOTHERCIV] are up Ceremonial burial and bronze working. We can easily buy in but there is no point. We also have 4 cities and they only have two!
1600BC - trade 167gp to [ANOTHERCIV]for Ceremonial burial. I want to be able to get border expansions in some of my cities. Writing comes in, we go for map making at max due in 16.
1500BC - sighted a light blue border.
1450BC - Meet the [ANOTHERCIV]. They are up most of the first tier. We are up writing, but I am not willing to spread that just yet!
1375BC - Meet the [ANOTHERCIV]. They have the same techs as the [ANOTHERCIV]. Buy masonry for 130gp. Masonry and 10gp gets us the wheel from the English.
1225BC - Map making comes in, set research on Code of Laws at max. I decide that since we are alone on an island, the great lighthouse wonder will prove very useful, both to get contacts and to maximise our seafaring trait advantages. Although as it turns out, I pretty much find everybody without it, although it proves very useful later on.
1200BC - Meet [ANOTHERCIV]. They have the same techs the others do. We are up writing.
1000BC - Meet [ANOTHERCIV].
Status:
11 cities
1 Settler
5 workers
7 warriors
1 galley
2 curragh
Up Writing, Mapmaking
Down Mathematics, Mysticism, Warrior Code, Bronze Working (that I can see).
Contacts with [OTHERCIVS].
2 turns to Code of Laws.
850BC - Philosophy is only 3 turns away, time to trade writing, as I am certain I am first there!
[TRADED PHILOSOPHY]
After this trade I dominated the tech race.
800BC - Finish philosophy, get the republic, revolt - 6 turns.
670BC - Become a republic.
630BC - We meet the [ANOTHERCIV]
610BC - Establish embassies with everyone.
410BC - [ANOTHERCIV]demand Republic, we say no way and they declare. We dogpile [ANOTHERCIV]on them.
400BC - Enter the MA.
At 490BC - my empire, with hints to explored regions blacked out, and missing one city I have founded over the sea. (yes only 3 new ones since 1000BC - I lost a couple of settlers to barbs down south.)

 

[Reinhard]

I started by taking a peek with the worker on the hill to the west. It took a long time to decide what to do, but finally I started moving towards the promising mountains with the settler and worker. It sure paid off as I got to found my capital right in the middle of the continent with river and a cow.

Contacted everyone fairly quickly, and decided not to go for any wonders. Code of Laws/Philosophy gambit paid off and with immediate change to Republic I soared into the middle ages in a nice lead.

 

[bed_head7]

Forgot to mention, I did republic slingshot successfully, which is not my usual strategy, and because of that, ended up deciding to pursue a peaceful victory. Usually I am finishing my expansion phase when I make the switch, but with the wasted center bonus, I went for republic and had switched by around 1000 B.C. The extra food helped me fill out my continent faster, but limited my options a bit as far as making war goes. So, since we started off with only silks, and I couldn't afford to go too far with the luxury slider if I was to have gold for buying techs (not to mention that I am not too much better at invading over water than the AI), after a couple early conflicts, I decided I would only pick up arms in defense of my country.

 

[Roland Ehnström]

COTM02_Open

** ANCIENT TIMES - EXPLORATION, COLONIZATION AND TRADING TECHS **

4000 BC - Settler moves southeast, Worker starts mining.

3950 BC - Amsterdam founded.

3450 BC - Our Worker discovers that we are not on an island after all!

3450 BC - First Curragh sent out west to explore the coast.

3250 BC - Warrior sent inland to explore and chase off possible barbarians.

3150 BC - Silks found north of the great mountains.

3100 BC - Large river and wast grasslands discovered (should have wandered here with the settler in the start, if only I had known).

2590 BC - Our Curragh discovers another continent, and starts exploring it's coastline, hoping to make contact with other civilizations.

2510 BC - Rotterdam founded at the southern end of the great river.

2430 BC - We discover Writing, which we had been researching flat-out from the start.

2430 BC - We meet another civilization (which I will call "Civ1" for the rest of this text, to comply with the spoiler rules). They teach us Ceremonial Burial and Masonry in exchange for Writing and Pottery.

2310 BC - We meet "Civ2". They give us Bronze Working, Warrior Code and 45 gold for Writing and Pottery.

2150 BC - We make contact with "Civ3". They teach us how to use The Wheel, and give us 55 gold, in exchange for Writing.

2110 BC - Our second Curragh discovers Horses running around on a small island to the south.

2070 BC - We meet "Civ4". They have nothing to offer us, so we move on. They tell us to move our units off their coast. Touchy bastards...

1650 BC - The Hague founded on the east coast of our continent (being seafaring I try to get as many coastal cities as possible), and Utrecht founded next to the cattle on the west bank of the river (will be a good spot for a capital).

1550 BC - We discover Code of Laws. "Civ2" trade us Iron Working, while "Civ3" teach us Mysticism, for us to share our new discovery with them.

1525 BC - We find a source of Iron on a small island south west of our continent!

1450 BC - Our Warrior stumbles upon a major Vandal barbarian camp on the frozen peninsula to the west. The Vandals attack with 2 Horsemen and 1 Warrior, but our brave Dutch Warrior doesn't lose a single hitpoint (!), and then promptly attacks the remaining Vandal Warrior, wins and becomes a Veteran.

1325 BC - Oh no! We discover Philosophy, but do not get a bonus tech! Either "Civ3" or one of the three undiscovered civilizations must have by-passed Map Making for Philosophy. If it's "Civ3", it was a big mistake to trade Writing to them, especially since we only got The Wheel and 55 gold in return... As a small consolidation for our disappointed people, who will have to live in a dictatorship for many more years, we hold a big celebration when Groningen is founded at the northen end of the great river.

1150 BC - We move our capital to Utrecht (Amsterdam abandoned and rebuilt on same location). However I'm unsure if this was worth the settler and the two whales (60 turns to build a Temple in Amsterdam), but don't tell my people!

1125 BC - Eindhoven founded in the southern woods by the coast.

1050 BC - Arnhem founded on the hilly northwest coastline.

925 BC - Maastrich founded in the hills by the southwest coast.

800 BC - Haarlem founded on the island next to the Horses.

650 BC - Holwerd founded on the other island with the Iron hills. We now have ten cities, and as a result our people want to build Forbidden Palace. We decide to wait, now that we have moved the capital.

630 BC - Middelburg founded on the "Civ1" continent, in the hope that this will be a good beach-head from which to launch an invasion on "Civ1" in the future...

570 BC - We trade our knowledge of Currency with "Civ4", and get Horseback Riding, Polytheism and 6 gold in return.

550 BC - "Civ3", our strongest opponent, want 24 gold from us, or they'll wipe us off the face of the earth. We refuse, and they declare war on us. Funny, considering that they have no idea where we are in the world!

390 BC - Delft founded on the tundra to the west, trying to push the barbarians off the continent.

270 BC - Our second and last Curragh (the first was killed by a barbarian Galley) on a suicide mission discovers new settled land (a black border), but sinks in dangerous waters before it can make contact with the civilization!

250 BC - We offer to make peace with the crazy "Civ3", and they agree. No blood was shed.

230 BC - A "Civ2" Galley is the first of our opponents to find our continent. They are amazed at the sight.

210 BC - We discover The Republic (1100 years too late...), and immediately throw ourselves into a revolution.

150 BC - WE TRADE THE REPUBLIC FOR CONSTRUCTION AND 121 GOLD WITH "CIV3", AND ENTER THE MIDDLE AGES! At this point "Civ3" is the strongest, followed by "Civ4". We are pretty much equal in strength to "Civ1", while "Civ2" is weak. We are most advanced, together with "Civ3". Three civilizations remain to be found. We have 12 cities, totalling 43 pop. Veteran Spearmen (Barracks in Rotterdam and Utrecht) are guarding our cities, helped by some Warriors.

Mistakes made:

1) It would have been better to walk inland with the settler from the start. Lesson learned: Never listen to the "experts" in the pre-game thread (who suggested that moving the worker W or NW to scout was a waste of time).

2) I built way too few workers. Was too eager pumping out settlers I guess. Lesson learned: Always have a minimum of 1 worker per city.

3) I traded Writing too early (got too scared to get left behind on science), coming to Philosophy too late to get the bonus tech. Lesson learned: If you're the first civ to get writing, never trade it before you have discovered Philosophy.

4) I built Barracks in two cities, and then one of these cities built a number of Spearmen before anyone else had actually found my continent. This was a total waste of time. I was too scared of the raging Barbarians. Lesson learned: If you have a continent to yourself, build Marketplaces and Libraries first, and wait until the other civs know where you are before building Barracks and defensive units.

Strategy for the Middle Ages:

After switching to Republic comes a short period of developing our core cities, building Marketplaces and Libraries (and Temples and Barracks where they are missing), and completing the Harbors in Haarlem and Holwerd to be able to send Horses and Iron to the mainland. During this time we should discover Feudalism, Monotheism and Chivalry. Then comes a period of mobilisation, building Knights and upgrading our Spearmen and Warriors to Swiss Mercenary and Medieval Infantry. As they are built, the Knights and some of the footunits are to be sent north of Middelburg, preparing to take "Civ1" by surprise, and start our Golden Age, before taking on "Civ2" (hopefully before they discover Gunpowder). The goal is to crush "Civ1" and "Civ2" before the end of the Middle Ages, to put us in a good position to take on the big challenge - "Civ3" - with Tanks in the Industrial Age. A man can dream...

To be continued...

-- Roland

 

[Darkness]

EDIT: Forgot to mention I played predator....

Pregame plan: Move worker NW to hills for better view. If there’s no bonus food, move settler SE for access to both whales. Build several curraghs for world exploration and contacts. Bee-line research for philosophy slingshot, as always. I don’t think I’m in the mood for a conquest game, so I’ll go for Spaceship/ Diplomatic/Cultural this time

4000BC – Worker moves NW, only hills and mountains, SE for the settler it is….
3950BC – Amsterdam founded -> curragh. Worker moves back to start position. Start writing at 100%
3900BC – Worker begins to road
3750BC – Road completed, start mine
3450BC – Mine completed, worker moves W
3400BC – Worker starts road
3350BC – Amsterdam -> curragh, starts settler. Curragh moves SE, towards island possibility projected in pregame discussion thread, and it proves to be there.
3300BC – Sea tiles modified to ocean??? Looks ugly, but IMHO this indicates Ainwood has modded the map. Perhaps to increase the size of the ocean towards another island. Suicide curraghs/galleys are an option in this spot.
3200BC – Our bad start calls for a risk to be taken. We decide to suicide curragh due E. Our galley ends its turn in an ocean square but we do spot safer waters ahead
3150BC – The curragh enters safer waters and spots some tundra islands
3100BC – Worker completes road and moves NW
3050BC – Worker moves W. Curragh spots yellow border
3000BC – We meet CENSORED and trade alphabet for masonry and 10 gold. Worker moves NW and spots three sources of silks. Worker begins roading the mountain tile. Curragh starts moving N along the coast
2950BC – Amsterdam reaches size 3. Sliders adjusted to prevent riots. Settler in 2.
2900BC – Curragh spots black border
2850BC – Amsterdam -> settler, start curragh. Settler moves NW, W, NW. Curragh contacts the CENSORED. We trade Alphabet and masonry to the CENSORED for BW and WC and 10 gold. CENSORED gets WC for CB
2800BC – Rotterdam founded, starts warrior
2710BC – curragh keeps moving roughly N
2590BC – Rotterdam -> warrior, starts worker. Warrior moves W, W and spots a river. Hmmm. Maybe I should have walked the settler as long as I did in COTM01, but then again, I couldn’t really see a reason to do so, after I saw those mountains after my initial worker move. Worker moves NW, to middle silks square
2550BC – Worker waits one turn to time chopping of silks forest after completion of worker in Rotterdam. Warrior moves W
2510BC – Rotterdam -> curragh, starts settler. New curragh moves NW, warrior follows river. Worker starts chopping forest on silks tile. Our exploring warrior spots a cattle next to the river. Damn, that could have been a 4-turn settler factory…. Writing in 1
2470BC – Writing researched -> Code of Laws
2390BC – Rotterdam -> worker, starts curragh. Worker moves SE, starts mining
2350BC – Forest chopped, 10 shields added to curragh construction in Rotterdam. Worker starts roading silks tile. Second exploring curragh turns the northern tip of our continent/island and starts moving W
2310BC – Second curragh crosses sea to spot more land
2270BC – Rotterdam -> curragh, starts warrior. Second curragh starts moving N along the coast of the new land and spots a light blue border. Third curragh moves along our southern coast
2230BC – Second curragh meets CENSORED. ?? gets masonry and pottery for the wheel and 10 gold
2190BC – Second curragh spots pink border. Third galley spots another patch of modded ocean, and a small island behind it
2150BC – We meet CENSORED
2110BC – Amsterdam builds settler, starts warrior. We disperse a barbarian camp. First exploring curragh spots dark blue border
2070BC – Rotterdam builds warrior and starts worker
1990BC – Second exploring curragh spots a purple border and meets the CENSORED.
1950BC – Second exploring curragh spots orange border. We meet the dark blue civ, the CENSORED and trade them Alphabet for the mysticism and 35 gold. Found The Hague due S of cattle. Sell mysticism to the CENSORED for 50 gold
1910BC – Amsterdam -> warrior, starts warrior. Rotterdam -> worker, starts warrior. We meet the CENSORED and sell mysticism for 9 gold
1725BC – Amsterdam -> warrior, starts settler. Rotterdam -> warrior, starts worker. We disperse a barbarian camp S of Utrecht
1625BC – Rotterdam -> worker, starts settler
1600BC – We discover CoL, start philosophy
1525BC – Curragh lost in treacherous waters. The Hague builds settler and starts granary.
1500BC – Rotterdam builds warrior, starts warrior. Set Amsterdam to “no growth”
1475BC – Amsterdam produces settler, abandon pop-up shows. We abandon the capital, getting a Free Palace Jump to The Hague, in the centre of the island. Settler founds Utrecht on the spot. Groningen founded
1450BC – The CENSORED establish an embassy in our capital
1325BC – We discover philosophy, and we are the first, which is quite lucky I think, because the CENSORED have had writing for at least 25-30 turns, so they could have easily had philosophy first. They chose to prioritise MM and HBR it seems. Republic is the free tech. 5-turn anarchy -> not nice. The Inca complete the Pyramids. We trade philosophy and CoL around to all AIs for IW, Maths, MM and HBR and 550 gold. We keep republic to bargain with at a later date
1300BC – Maya build the Oracle
1275BC – Spanish build Statue of Zeus
1200BC – Dutch Republic formed. Spend a total of 331 gold to establish embassies with the six other AI’s.
1175BC – Zulu build Colossus
1100BC – The Hague builds granary, starts settler
1075BC – Rotterdam builds settler, starts worker
1025BC – The Hague builds settler, starts another. Eindhoven founded. The Spanish land a settler on our island…
1000BC – We discover literature, begin currency. Groningen builds settler and starts another. French build Mausoleum. Arnhem founded. Literature sold for polytheism and a total of 241 gold.


QSC summary:
6 towns
1 granary
2 curraghs
6 warriors
4 workers
All AA techs except, construction, currency and monarchy
653 gold
7 contacts/7 embassies (six established by me)
To sum it up: Not good at all ( can I hide behind the fact that the start position was difficult? Please?



925BC – Maastricht founded
875BC – Haarlem founded
825BC – Holwerd founded
750BC – We discover currency. The Zulu and the Inca have recently mastered construction, so we trade currency straight-up for construction with the Zulu to enter the MA

 

[Singularity]

[OPEN]
My initial guesses for this game was way off mark this time. But I started out true to my aim - for one move. And that was my workers move W. When I saw the wall of three mountain tiles in the NW I decided to chance an exodus with my settler from the cramped peninsula. Two rounds later I had zeroed in my worker on a river and a hill. And great was my joy when I finally got payment for my longish trek in the form of cattle and a superb capitol locatioin a tile S of that cattle in 3650BC. It was a nice place to both get fast growth and good cash to recover my lost rounds moving my settler.

My initial buildorder was warrior, settler, worker. My second city was 4 tiles NNNWN of my capitol finished at 2900BC. All the while I researched writing flat out at 100% science taxation. Only interupted by the odd period of 10 or 20% luxury while my warriors where out scouting the terrain. After sufficiently bonusgrass had been mined I started a granary in Amsterdam. By then I had made two settlers, my second city was NNNE - also on a river/coast tile. My 2 new cities both produced a curragh first to explore the waves. And before I got my third settler I had a total of 4 workers to ensure that my rapid agricultural spurrerd growth where allmost matched by improved tiles for my citizens. In 1675 I built my fourth city also at the river, but not on the coast. SESESE of Amsterdam. I now had a very nice flow of money from my little empire. I'm starting to improve my worker production in my games, something that I believe has been my greatest flaw so far. In this game I matched the number of new cities with workers.

My scientific advicor went from very unhappy to a bundle of joy in a short time. My techrate was very efficient. And my RNG for exploring galleys was very good - so I decided to go the writing - CoL - Philosophy - Republic route before I got mapmaking. And in 1500BC I told my domestic advisor to kick my despotic rulers awaiting a new goverment in 3 turns in 1425BC.

Then I decided to try out getting litterature first, and perhaps trading MM from one of my neighbours. It was sort of successfull, and three turns before I finished MM I traded it from one of them in 1225BC. It didn't affect my exploration rate much, but it let me start preparing my first few settlers for off shore settlement. In 1000BC I had:

9 cities
1 settler
8 workers
5 warriors
1 galley
2 Curraghs

And was constructing TGL. My techrate was still fast, and I was 4 turns away from construction.

In 750BC I entered the MA with 12 cities and 3 settlers. I still had not settled the far western area on my island. And have finished temples in all of my core - and am at varying degree building libraries. Here is a screen of 10 of my cities at 750BC:

 

[Darkness]

With the massive amount of discussion generated by such an innocent starting screenshot, I'm hoping to see some good discussions about the starting moves in particular - what went to plan, what didn't, what you would have done in hindsigh.

Excellent idea!

I'd like to ask the people who moved their settler anything else but SE why they did so?
After my intitial worker move I saw this

I could not see any reason to move towards the mountains. So what did you see/think that made you move towards the mountains?

 

[Singularity]

Excellent idea!

I'd like to ask the people who moved their settler anything else but SE why they did so?
After my intitial worker move I saw this

I could not see any reason to move towards the mountains. So what did you see/think that made you move towards the mountains?

Well, a few reasons:

First of all. I wanted to get 5 - 6 cities in a C3C style core ASAP. That was a bit hard on a peninsula in the deep south of our world. And would mean a palace jump at a point that would hinder my advancement. So even though I only could cram 2 - 3 more cities into the hidden territory I would have been very satisfied by the increased number of landtiles around my capitol. By 3900BC I saw this:

And I knew I had done the right thing, just 2 turns after start. It's a small gamble, but you clearly see forest and terrain behind 5 of the tiles hidden by the wall of mountains. So it's not a very big gamble.

 

[SirPleb]

I'd like to ask the people who moved their settler anything else but SE why they did so?

I haven't written my spoiler post yet but I've qualified for this spoiler and thought I'd answer this question.

I'm another one who moved the settler inland. I was encouraged a step at a time by what seems to me to have been a very carefully calculated trail of bread crumbs. (Small ones )

I began by moving my worker west. That revealed the mountains of course, but it also revealed what looked like 3 forest tiles beyond them and 1 possible grassland to their southwest. At this point I stopped a while to think and decided that:
1) In Conquests clearing forest tiles is quick. I could move the settler to get at least three grass tiles vs. the two at the start.
2) It seemed unlikely that ainwood would put us on a small but not tiny island. There was very likely more land beyond the forests.
3) As an agricultural Civ it is worth a long move to get fresh water. We're not on a super tiny island. I doubt that ainwood would make us agricultural and then make us start with no fresh water at all in our land.

Adding it all up it seemed worth moving. At worst it was very unlikely that the position would be worse. And two forest chops (the very worst case, if I decided to settle on one of the forests) would also get a fast 20 shields.

Three steps brought my worker and settler to the middle mountain and I saw silks and a river. The fourth step was west en route to a river location. On the next turn the decision to not move south was easy - although coastal, that tile wasn't on the river. For the first town(s) the river was more important. I also decided I wouldn't move SW - didn't want to settle there because it would preclude settling that coastal tile between two mountains later on, which seemed a good option to keep open. So the fifth settler step was west again. I didn't see a reason to move much further so on that turn I left the worker behind, chopping the most southwest silk forest. On the next turn I decided to take one more step with my settler. I didn't want to waste the BG tile he was on and I wanted to make that coastal tile two steps southeast a more useful place to settle later. So I moved the settler to the hill. And wow, was that ever a nice end to the trail with cattle in sight! Next turn, 3700BC, I settled there. There was no further bread crumb enticing me to move further

 

[Singularity]

@SirPleb

Nice chain of logic. But what made you not want to move the worker to the hill when you saw it in 3850BC? I felt that the rewards of zeroing in my capitol in the middle of a strectch of rivers was very important to my initial growth as an agricultural civ, and that hill would provide a good viewpoint for that decision. So I just tagged along with my settler ready to move towards any favourable terrain. My three reasons to keep moving came at 4000bc, 3900bc and 3850bc. The five hidden tiles, the river and the hill by the river. And yes, it felt like Ainwood had left a trail of crumbs for us to follow.

Hehe. Should have written 4000bc, 3900bc and 3850bc on that pic...

 

[Offa]

Open

I also moved my worker on the hill, and not seeing anything I liked, settled right on the penisula tip. I don't like this recent tendency of games where an almost random early decision (ie locating first town) makes such a difference to the whole game. I could have helped myself a lot by abandoning the capital in favour of the cow site, but didn't think of this until it was far too late to be practical. I ended up with 5 towns in 1000bc and a load of corruption.

Not having done the republic slingshot in cotm1 I had no qualms about doing it this time and reached republic in 1450bc.

However, having missed the ideal start position all I can really do now is scratch out some indifferent score.

 

[Email10]

I'm also qualified for this thread, but will post more about my start later...

I'd like to ask the people who moved their settler anything else but SE why they did so?

My initial plan was to settle SE, but after moving the worker W I saw the forest tiles and I misinterprated the silks to be a river!! With the possibility to reach fresh water within 4 turns. As I stepped on the mountains I could see the real river and moved towards it. Once my settler reached the hill by the river, the cow was revealed and the 1-3-warrior-settler-factory was a fact.

 

[DaveMcW]

Predator

I moved the worker to the NW hill and saw the forest behind them mountains. Forest always means grassland nearby, so that was enough to convince me to move off the peninsula. The silks were just an extra bonus.

After moving the settler to the W hill, I saw all 3 mountains. Zooming in on them revealed Ainwood's Final Message To His Creation, written in 30 foot flaming letters.*
*A Douglas Adams reference

It was an inconvenience moving 5 tiles to settle, but definitely worth it. I was perfectly happy with 4 bonus grassland, 3 silks, and a river, so I didn't bother to scout the hill.

Of course I built my second city by the cattle and turned it into a settler factory. Actually the first thing it built was worker, granary, worker, worker. The workers focused on roading all worked tiles in order to get more science. I finished my Republic slingshot in 1600BC. I'll talk about tech trading in the contact-with-other-civs spoiler.

 

[Aeson]

I could not see any reason to move towards the mountains. So what did you see/think that made you move towards the mountains?

I moved my Worker onto the W Hill first. Saw the 3 Silk Forest tiles.

The reasons that went through my head in order of impact on my decision:

- I have no qualms about playing nomad as a 'dry' Agricultural civ, as fresh water is always such a boon. Generally I will send my Settler and Worker scouting a few turns in such a case. It's one of the first things that struck me when starting to play C3C. "Conquests has definitely changed my perspective on wandering."
- The starting location sucked for a Palace. NW might suck too, but at least it had a chance to be otherwise. I don't like jumping the Palace and MGL's are too valuable as Armies in C3C.
- 3 Silk Forests are about on par with what we at the start, at least in the timeframe it would take to send the first Settler back down to resettle the starting location. Eventually the site SW could have been a 2 turn Worker producer, but that would only have been a big plus if there was more land to Settle, and wouldn't have kicked in till Republic (or Monarchy) and a Harbor. So if worst comes to worst and the 3 Silk Forests are all there is, it's a decent backup.
- I felt that Ainwood wouldn't have designed an 'extreme' map for the GOTM. Much for the same reason that we don't have Sid games schedualed. I could see Ainwood using that against me personally ... but not at the expense of the rest of the player population. Especially not when he didn't know I would be playing.
- "Please let there be more land... and no volcano!"

Ended up moving my Settler NW and eventually founded my first city in 3600BC just S of the Cattle. From the Mountains I had noticed the Hill on the river, and wanted to check it out before 'settling' for the BG's.

 

[Roland Ehnström]

think a certain AI civ popped philosophy from a hut.

Ah yes of course, that must have been what happened to me too. I was shocked when I discovered Philosophy as early as 1325 BC (earliest ever for me I think, though I usually play at Emperor) and DIDN'T get a bonus tech. I will never trade writing this early again. Live and learn...

-- Roland

 

[Darkness]

OK, I'm convinced. I should definately have walked my settler to the mountains at the very least... Oh, well, live and learn...