Doing an Al Gore

[ggganz]

AKA beelining for Fiber Optics to get the Internet, which has Al Gore on the button.
Here is a list of the techs required, in the order that the computer automatically queues them if you click on Fiber Optics (this is if you start with The Wheel, Agriculture, and Mysticism)
1. Fishing
2. Sailing
3. Pottery
4. Writing
5. Mathematics
6. Calendar
7. Mining
8. Bronze Working
9. Iron Working
10. Compass
11. Metal Casting
12. Machinery
13. Optics
14. Astronomy
15. Masonry
16. Polytheism
17. Monotheism
18. Theology
19. Paper
20. Printing Press
21. Scientific Method
22. Phisics
23. Electricity
24. Radio
25. Computers
26. Education
27. Gunpowder
28. Currency
29. Monarchy
30. Feudalism
31. Guilds
32. Banking
33. Replacable Parts
34. Rifling
35. Construction
36. Engineering
37. Chemistry
38. Steel
39. Artillery
40. Rocketry
41. Satellites
42. Fiber Optics (allows Internet)

This is the order that I usually research them in, plus 4 other techs with ! next to them.
1. Polytheism
2. Masonry
3. Monotheism
4. Mining
5. Bronze Working
6. Iron Working
!Hunting
!Archery
!Animal Husbandry
7. Pottery
8. Writing
9. Mathematics
!Alphabet
10. Fishing
11. Sailing
12. Calendar
13. Metal Casting
14. Monarchy
15. Feudalism
16. Machinery
17. Guilds
18. Currency
19. Banking
20. Compass
21. Theology
22. Paper
23. Education
24. Gunpowder
25. Printing Press
26. Replacable Parts
27. Rifling
28. Construction
29. Optics
30. Astronomy
31. Engineering
32. Chemistry
33. Steel
34. Scientific Method
35. Physics
36. Electricity
37. Radio
38. Computers
39. Artillery
40. Rocketry
41. Satellites
42. Fiber Optics (allows Internet)

What order would you recommend researching them in? Is this a good one, or should I research something sooner? Maybe Construction should be earlier.

EDIT: Here is my new list. I included Mysticism, Agriculture, and The Wheel, and I added Code of Laws, Civil Service, and Liberalism (and its prerequisites), and moved up Construction (Catapults) and Engineering (Trebuchets).

Order computer queues it (NOTE: this is assuming you start with no techs, and Agriculture, The Wheel, and Mysticism are not actually in the right order.
1. Agriculture
2. The Wheel
3. Mysticism
4. Fishing
5. Sailing
6. Pottery
7. Writing
8. Mathematics
9. Calendar
10. Mining
11. Bronze Working
12. Iron Working
13. Compass
14. Metal Casting
15. Machinery
16. Optics
17. Astronomy
18. Masonry
19. Polytheism
20. Monotheism
21. Theology
22. Paper
23. Printing Press
24. Scientific Method
25. Phisics
26. Electricity
27. Radio
28. Computers
29. Education
30. Gunpowder
31. Currency
32. Monarchy
33. Feudalism
34. Guilds
35. Banking
36. Replacable Parts
37. Rifling
38. Construction
39. Engineering
40. Chemistry
41. Steel
42. Artillery
43. Rocketry
44. Satellites
45. Fiber Optics (allows Internet)

My order, plus extras (!), assuming you start with no technologies.
1. Mysticism
2. The Wheel
3. Agriculture
4. Polytheism
5. Masonry
6. Monotheism
7. Mining
8. Bronze Working
9. Iron Working
!Hunting
!Archery
!Animal Husbandry
10. Pottery
11. Metal Casting
12. Machinery
13. Writing
14. Mathematics
15. Construction
16. Engineering
17. Currency
!Code of Laws
!Civil Service
!Alphabet
18. Fishing
19. Sailing
20. Calendar
21. Monarchy
22. Feudalism
23. Guilds
24. Banking
25. Compass
26. Theology
27. Paper
28. Education
!Philosophy
!Liberalism
29. Gunpowder
30. Printing Press
31. Replacable Parts
32. Rifling
33. Optics
34. Astronomy
35. Chemistry
36. Steel
37. Scientific Method
38. Physics
39. Electricity
40. Radio
41. Computers
42. Artillery
43. Rocketry
44. Satellites
45. Fiber Optics (allows Internet)

My third list. I gave up on numbers and exclamation points.
Mysticism
The Wheel
Agriculture
Polytheism
Masonry
Monotheism
Mining
Bronze Working
Iron Working
Hunting
Archery
Animal Husbandry
Pottery
Metal Casting
Machinery
Writing
Mathematics
Construction
Engineering
Currency
Code of Laws
Civil Service
Alphabet
Fishing
Sailing
Calendar
Monarchy
Feudalism
Guilds
Banking
Compass
Paper
Education
Philosophy
Liberalism
Gunpowder
Printing Press
Replacable Parts
Rifling
Optics
Astronomy
Chemistry
Steel
Scientific Method
Physics
Electricity
Radio
Computers
Artillery
Rocketry
Satellites
Fiber Optics (allows Internet)

 

[RLesink]

Here are some of my thoughts/questions:

First, I'm curious about the point of beelining the Internet. If I'm not mistaken, it gives any tech that 2 civs have learned to ALL the other civs, right? I've never had a game where the Internet was built, so I don't know for sure, but it seems like it would help the AI more than you. What level do you play? I think that would make a difference on how well this research line works.

I don't know, it is kind of interesting, do you find that once you get the Internet up, that it just fills in everything you skipped along the way and then you still have a monopoly on the latest techs in your line? What year do you typically get the Internet up?

I would say Construction definitely needs to be earlier. Do you play Warlords? I don't know what tech gives you Trebs but if you're planning to go to war to pick up some extra cities (which I always do, but I guess some people don't and that works for them too) you need some siege units earlier.

Also, no Code of Laws or Civil Service? Courthouses and Bureaucracy would give a big boost to your research by lowering maintenance to get your slider up and the capital bonuses help a lot too. It seems to me that adding Priesthood, CoL and CS (I think that is all you'd have to add) would be a worthwhile detour.

I don't remember the prereqs for Philosophy, but I might try to add that in to grab Liberalism and then you could grab Printing Press for free. You have education anyway, so if Philosophy (~1500 beakers?) + Liberalism (~2400?) < Printing Press (~4200? just going from memory on these), you are saving beakers with the free tech plus you can get the 10&#37; tech bonus from Free Religion for everything after that. (And Isabella will stop harassing you to turn Buddhist )

Wow this got long. I'm going on break.

 

[FuRRie]

Engeineering gives Trebuchets, hich in Warlords, can be very helpfull in taking cities.
You are also taking in account you get the Wheel for free (Warlord and lower difficulty I believe).

I would skip Hunting and Archery though, you should be able to survive without Archers.

 

[ggganz]

1. No, it only gives you the techs. Gives you a huge score increase, and you get so many techs for much less research. Even if it didn't, usually the AI always take the same research path, which is very different from this one, and so there would only be ONE person with all the techs they didn't have and it wouldn't count. I play on Warlord difficulty.
2. I don't know what year it usually is, because it has only worked once (just started trying this).
3. Yes, I do use Warlords. I try to stay peaceful usually, but if I don't get iron, then Archery is my hero.
4. I should add those and move up Liberalism, but I always end up getting Liberalism the same time I'm done with the University of Sankore, so the Sankore :beakers: bonus goes away.

I'll think about this and post a new list after I have added them.

 

[RLesink]

Oh yeah, I was also going to say skip Archery unless you're really hurting for a strategic resource. Also, I would move BW up. I guess if you want a religion, then you could go Poly - Mining - BW. But if you're aiming to found a religion, don't you want to get Meditation for Missionaries to get happiness + shrine income? Or do you just use Organized Religion? I've never used OR, so I don't know what tech gives it to you. I usually play on Monarch, but maybe on Warlord you could grab BW and then come back and still get Judaism? Also on Monarch, you need barb defense sooner, so BW is more of a priority. (Oh I forgot about the Great Wall )

I'm gonna try this later on after I get a few things taken care of around here.

What civ and what game settings do you use? I only have vanilla, but I will try to pick a similar civ. Tell me what the trait does if it is a Warlords trait. Oh but I'll only play Standard or Quick speed

I'll put my results and thoughts up probably late tonight. (Like in 5-6 hours)

 

[ggganz]

I go Poly for religion, then Masonry for Pyramids and Great Wall. Mono gives OR, so that is next.
I use Warlord difficulty, Lakes, standard, 7 civs, Normal Speed, Huayna Capac (Industrious, Financial).
Let me tell you, you cannot survive without Alphabet. Unless you want the largest army ever and/or a thousand workers.

 

[Softnum]

If your theory is to try and tech out to the internet then use that to Space Ship? What's your victory plan on this?

Assuming you're going to power to a Space Ship, and avoid wars, like ou stated, I would put Pottery and Writing way sooner. Pottery gets you Cottages, and Writing gets you LIbrary, both help with research. Also, I don't see why IW is so high up.

 

[ggganz]

Once I get the Internet, I get an onslaught of splash screens, greatly increasing my score. IW is so soon so I can kill the jungles!

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Here is a list of the techs required, in the order that the computer automatically queues them if you click on Fiber Optics

That order looks right for the computer to queue them, but they aren't all required - you have three choice points along the way (Monarchy, Paper, Fiber Optics) where your prerequisites are not specified.

In particular, you might want to consider which way you want to get to Paper. You are missing Civil Service, for example, and Code of Laws, in exchange for a shot at a couple of religions - you've got a lot of researching to do, so maybe monasteries and a commerce boost in your capital would provide better return than a pair of religious civics (which can only be used one at a time).

 

[ggganz]

The computer queued Theology because it is cheaper.

 

[RLesink]

OK I just tried this. Standard size, speed, fractal, random- Tokogawa, Warlord, all else default on vanilla. I stopped after I completed the Internet. I have a 5 tech lead on everyone else and I'm certain to get a space race win. It worked out OK, but it seems to me that it would be better to get some more of the earlier techs (Drama and Music for culture happiness during a war [not really an issue at Warlord, but I use it a lot on Monarch] and Literature for everyone's favorite wonder, Great Library) and then heading toward Democracy and Industrialism for cottage growth, Infantry, Tanks, and most importantly, Factories.
My production was really bad without Factories and Coal Plants, so it took forever to even build the Internet and even then I still didn't have Industrialism. I kept a little record of the game, I'll try to put some pictures up tomorrow, it's already 2:30am here and I ought to get to bed. I'm not a writer. the spelling and grammar should be correct, but it's probably really boring to read. Here it is!

Spoiler :

OK I wanted to try this out.

Settings: Warlord, Standard, Fractal, Random leader, everything else default. Drew Tokugawa (Agg/Org)

4000 BC: Coastal start with a short river on a narrow strip of land with 1 grass hill, 1 plains hill, 1 plains, 4 coast and the rest grass with Pig as my only resource. Hopefully I have some metal hiding around here.
Only a few trees, so I'm going to start with a Warrior while researching Myst- Poly for a religion. I found Hinduism in 3360 BC as I grow to size 3 and switch to Worker to get my growth rolling and begin research on Mining.
Qin Shi Huang is about 10 tiles to my west and has 3 grassland gems in his capital. I can't wait to get them.
Cyrus is about 20 tiles to my north with Marble past a bunch of jungle.
No copper in my capital! I begin Iron Working.
Finally find copper 10 tiles to my SE so I send a Settler and the warrior I popped from my only goody hut. Good news is that there are three gold hills, two flood plains and a grass hill pig with the copper, so that will give me a nice boost to research, which I feel I really need.
Alexander is somewhere, but I don't see his cap yet. Ah, it's just east of my future copper/gold city.

1800 BC: Get my 2nd and 3rd cities up almost simultaneously. Along with the copper/gold city, I have a Pig, Iron, (no not pig iron, pig iron, all pig iron) Oasis, flood plain city with some hills. Found no goody huts except the one earlier, so I have no money, so I dropped to 80% science with +1 gpt. Got Pottery, started cottaging. Research Priesthood to start Oracle and then hunting, Animal Husbandry (Horses in my capital), and Writing

1000 BC: capital built a Barracks and is building Axemen to attack either Qin or Alex, since Alex built a city right where I wanted my GP farm (Fish, Crabs, Pigs, and Horse for some hammers) Missed the Oracle by 4 turns, ah well. I finish Mathematics and then switch to CoL to fund my war I am getting ready for.

300 BC: WAR! I declare on Qin because he is a lot closer to my capital, so maintenance won't kill me and I can see his cities only have an archer or two guarding them. I send 2 Swordmen and 5 Axemen his way. Lose one of each and I keep a grassy coastal city with Iron and Bananas, which he was kind enough to put Plantations on for me. Beijing (capital) has 3 archers on a hill with 40% cultural defense. I attack with 3 Swords and 3 Axes. First two Swords win with a 27% chance and an Axe cleans up after the 3rd Sword's death and I keep the city.
Beijing had two Clams to go with the 3 Gems, but he didn't put boats on them yet . In 25 BC, I switch to Bureaucracy and Slavery (yeah late, I know, but I didn't have any unhappiness) I start Masonry to grab Construction for future warring, and then Alphabet.
I raze China's new capital and a barb city (make that 2 barb cities) to make room for a grassland sugar/rice city and send a settler, worker, and missionary up to get that city rolling.
China only has one city left, but I don't know where it is, and I am ready to declare peace, so I get peace for Sailing and Archery, his only two techs I don't have.

500 AD: I've been running at 90% science, so I settler spam a bunch of marginal cities in the area I blocked off from Alex earlier. I build cats in my copper/gold city and send my army down to take a few cities off him soon. I see he has Horse Archers, but I ain't scurred. Qin asks me for Metal Casting, which I respectfully decline to give him.
I found Taoism in 660 AD.
I stil haven't generated a Great Person, so I get to building temples in my capital to make a Prophet to make the Hindu shrine. (Yeah built the temples and then forgot to set a Priest for 500 years....)

1000 AD: Looks like Rome is across a thin strip of water to the west. Will consider building a boat to visit them. Starting Samurais to attack Alex soon. I build the Hanging Gardens and Colossus, just because I had nothing better to build and I never turn down extra stuff. I am way ahead of the AI in score (by about 500 points), power, everything except culture, which Cyrus is currently #1 at. Alex is starting to get Longbows, so I declare war in 1090 AD. 9 Swordsmen, 4 Samurais (Macemen), and 6 Catapults depart for Sparta (my GP farm I mentioned like 3000 years ago). I start Engineering to get the extra movement for reinforcements. I take Sparta with no friendly losses.
I begin the 24-turn home stretch toward Liberalism with the intent to get Printing Press for free. (Turns out PP and Liberalism are about the same amount of beakers, so if you aren't planning on using Free Religion, there is no real benefit like I thought there would be.) And FINALLY in 1170, I get Chuang-Tzu, Great Prophet! The Hindu Shrine gives me +13 gpt, but I'll be adding the money buildings next.
In 1260 AD, I take the last of Alex's three cities. I now have 13 cities and I'll probably stay out of war for the rest of the game.

1350 AD: I meet Elizabeth. I trade CS for Optics because I want to circumnavigate before she does. Otherwise, I am just building whatever the AI suggests except for National Wonders that I have other plans for. I start research on Economics for the GM while I build a Caravel. Ah! I meet Asoka who is willing to sell me his world map for 170 gold! I take it. Next turn I have circumnavigated the globe without ever leaving my shores. In 1390, I switch to Free Market and Free Speech.
In 1560, I get my first Great Scientist (lol weak, finally) and build an Academy in the capital.

1600 AD: I bulb most of Biology with my GS from Physics and research the rest. Still just building the AI suggested buildings, finishing up my worker improvements, and pressing Enter. Just in case anybody still cares, I have 37% of the world population and 29% of the world land area. I am starting to slip on the power graph, so I am building military again.

1765 AD: Fiber Optics is researched. Osaka (copper/gold city) begins work on the Internet and it will take 34 turns (yeah, my production is weakkkkkkk) I start researching toward Fusion for the GE, but I just remembered they don't rush projects. I add him to the city instead and that cuts the time left from 15 to 13 turns.

1848: Internet is completed. I learn: Literature, Drama, Theology, Music, Divine Right, Nationalism, Military Tradition, Constitution, Democracy, Corporation. I now have a 5 tech lead on all my opponents.

This is the tech order I took, made a few more quick stops along the way, but mostly got to Fiber Optics ASAP.

Spoiler :

Myst
Poly
Mining
BW
IW
Pottery
Priesthood
Hunting
AH
Writing
Meditation
Mathematics
CoL
CS
Masonry
Construction
Alphabet
Sailing, Archery (in exchange for peace)
Calendar
Metal Casting
Monarchy
Philosophy
Feudalism
Machinery
Monotheism, Horseback Riding (in exchange for CoL to Cyrus)
Guilds
Currency
Banking
Engineering
Paper
Education
Liberalism
Printing Press
Compass
Optics (in exchange for CS from Elizabeth)
Economics
Gunpowder
Replaceable Parts
Rifling
Astronomy
Chemistry
Steel
Scientific Method
Physics
Biology
Electricity
Radio
Computers
Artillery
Rocketry
Satellites
Fiber Optics

Anyway, I'll try to get some pictures up tomorrow. G'nite.

 

[Mutineer]

There was a SG where folk click on internet on start of the game, which a rule that they can not trade tech that are not on path. A bit difficult variant is not advisable as a strategy.

Internet in current form is too late to be of any use.

 

[LlamaCat]

The key issue here is why are you deciding to beeline from the beginning of a game? You need to make the decision to go for the Internet or any other wonder based on the circumstances you're currently in. The Internet can be a complete waste of time if you have a strong or fairly decent tech lead throughout the game. On the other hand, it can really be a life-saver, as it was for me in a game where I was building the space ship and I built the Internet because I was just behind Mansa, the tech leader, and that gave me just about every late-game tech I need to complete the space ship. So then I was able to put my research slider on 0&#37; and earn some quick cash for spy activites, and I won the game.
But the point is, I only made the decision to beeline from a certain point late in the game when it was clear what my best victory choice was and where I stood in the technology race.

 

[DNK]

I'm going to echo LlamaCat here and say it seems too rigid a framework for a game. A 5-tech lead isn't much really, unless you mean five tiers of techs in which case it is and I'll have to reconsider the rest of this post then. It's sort of like a pyramids or oracle slingshot, but instead of being just at a certain point it's the entire game. Perhaps it's a guaranteed "slingshot" (especially because I've never seen anyone build it in a game), but I'd think just teching as the situation called for would be more beneficial for expansion and an earlier win than waiting so long for the payoff.

And the first list just makes my head hurt at how random it seems, and how far off it puts necessary economy/research techs. I mean, you go all the way up to astronomy before beginning on paper, ignore currency until late, etc.

Why not just get up to the industrial era and then beeline to internet, if you so desire? That might be an interesting gameplan, if you can manage it, but starting so early seems like a lot of opportunity costs I can't afford in a game.

Maybe this could work on the middle and higher difficulty levels, but I doubt anything past prince is going to be able to utilize this. I'm not sure if it would even work on prince.

 

[JackOfClubs]

I tried a game like this about a year ago. I think the difficulty was Prince but it might have been Noble. In my experience there were three scenarios:

1. A tech was so unnecessary that it wasn't very useful to have it. (Example: Divine Right which is only necessary for Nationalism if you don't have Philosophy and is only worth getting if you are the first in order to found Islam.)

2. A tech was useful but had been superceded by other techs. (Example: Horseback Riding and Military Tradition which allow powerful military units in their eras but, by the time you have Fiber Optics, are eclipsed by tanks from Industrialism.)

3. The handful of techs that are left are genuinely useful but, by the nature of the wonder, are already owned by at least two other civs. (Industrialism in my game.)

In Civ III the Great Library had the same effect as the Internet does in Civ IV. It came much earlier but was obsoleted by Education. We used to call this strategy the Lazy Researcher: build the Great Library then set your science slider to 0 and build military units while the rest of the world does your research for you. When two civs researched Education, pump the research back up and use the excess cash/military to buy or extort whatever you still lack. It worked then because the wonder came early in the game and being 3rd in line for a tech didn't matter as much since you had the whole rest of the game to catch up if something went wrong.

As Mutineer says, this works as a moderately challenging variant in Civ IV, but not as a real strategy. This might be viable in a Modern or Industrial start or maybe as early as Renaissance, but that would be a stretch. The problem is there are too many extraneous techs that are necessary for a healthy civ that you can't wait until the end of the game for.

 

[ggganz]

Look back at first post, edited with new list. ^^

 

[svv]

When you do these, are you doing them with tech trading turned off or on? With tech trading on, it seems like it'd be pretty much like any other game. With tech trading off, it could really be a worthwhile strategy.

If you've got tech trading on to let the AI trade, but you're refusing to trade (or only trading for techs in the path to internet) then it could be really difficult.

 

[ggganz]

No, tech trading is on, and I trade.

 

[ggganz]

Made another new list again, just got rid of Theology, because I realized that I don't need it with Civil Service. Reread first post. ^^