Expanding on flight and its representation in civ

[CoconutTank]

Going to fork this from the September update video thread, since admittedly this is not quite on topic.

Unlikely in this update.
Also unlikely at all given wouldn't you at least need flight for air units/an Aerodrome district unless there is some civ out there that discovered how to fly before actual flight.

While it would be weird to have flying before actual flight, the study of flight has been around long before planes from Flight and Advanced Flight (which I'd maybe rename to Early Aviation and Advanced Aviation respectively). Successful airships and rotorcrafts have shown up earlier in various forms and also had their milestones in history, though their impact is certainly dwarfed by planes.

Additionally, before sustained powered flight there was unpowered flight. Although they would likely be different from normal civ 6 air units, I think gliders could represent the early designs that eventually lead to sustained powered flight. Gliders (assuming they were mechanically more like land units than air units) could have a similar movement benefit like heavy cavalry do; if they start their turn on a Hill tile, they get +2 movement and ignore terrain penalties for the turn.

Assuming an Aeronautics tech could fit into the tech tree somewhere, I could imagine it being as far back as before Astronomy and after Education if the earliest successful flying machines (including unpowered flight) were to be represented in some way.

Overall though, I'll admit that this is all wishful thinking and that my grasp of history is pretty feeble overall ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

It's placement in the tech tree is fine I think, flight just wasn't really a thing with historical significance until the combustion engine was discovered.
And even then, it wasn't really until WW2 that planes got a more expanded role apart from reconnaissance, becoming an important strategic wing of a nation's armed forces.

Anyhow, my gripes with Flight in civ 6 is how massively overtuned it is at the moment, and how it relates to walls which are also overtuned.
Hitting Flight (and Advanced Flight) is the most important tech for offensive warfare, bar none.
This is made worse by the AI not properly understanding how to leverage Flight itself, nor counter the human player utilizing Flight/Advanced Flight.
The effect this has on gameplay makes things incredibly predictable.
You conquer a few cities early before walls are up, then basically give up most offensive ambitions while you set up infrastructure rather peacefully for the next 3000 years, then suddenly you cut through everything like butter once you have Flight and Advanced Flight.
This is not fun once you've done it a couple of times, and makes the typical game very predictable if you have any intents of domination.

I really wish they toned down walls in this game, and in turn gave cities more sources of AA (or teach the damn AI to build proper AA).
As of now, walls are a massive brick wall (pun intended) that slow down the game too hard domination-wise, while Flight becomes proportionally more important because it lets you circumvent walls entirely (first with balloons giving artillery 3 range and outrange said walls, then bombers later flattening them by themselves).

I do get that there is some realism to this (compare WW1 trench warfare to WW2 blitz warfare, after the successful combination of mechanized divisions with air support), but it's too extreme in civ 6. Civ 5 had this much better paced out - walls weren't the "get out of jail free"-card they are now, promotions let you get to +1 range earlier than flight, and the AI actually building lots of AA. Flight was still good, but not necessarily THE best option 99% of the time.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Additionally, before sustained powered flight there was unpowered flight. Although they would likely be different from normal civ 6 air units, I think gliders could represent the early designs that eventually lead to sustained powered flight. Gliders (assuming they were mechanically more like land units than air units) could have a similar movement benefit like heavy cavalry do; if they start their turn on a Hill tile, they get +2 movement and ignore terrain penalties for the turn.

The first mentions of aviation for combat was France in the late 1700s. They used hydrogen balloons which would be what the observation balloons in game currently represents. So I think that could theoretically be in the Industrial Era, but I don't think anything else needs to come before that.

Even though flying machines were drawn out by people such as Da Vinci, they were never built.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

The first mentions of aviation for combat was France in the late 1700s. They used hydrogen balloons which would be what the observation balloons in game currently represents. So I think that could theoretically be in the Industrial Era, but I don't think anything else needs to come before that.

Even though flying machines were drawn out by people such as Da Vinci, they were never built.

The first balloons were not hydrogen, but Hot Air: Montgolfier Brothers first flight in 1783 was a hot air balloon, and the first balloon to cross the English Channel just 2 years later was also 'fueled' by hot air.

The first Air Unit was formed in 1794: the Revolutionary French Army formed a Balloon Company which did use static (tethered) hydrogen-filled balloons for reconnaissance. They were first used in battle at Fleurus to spot Austrian troop movements, but they weren't as generally useful as Light Cavalry (which wasn't tied to a single spot!) so by 1802 the Balloon Companies (there were two formed) were disbanded.

In the Siege of Paris in 1871 the French used balloons to maintain communications from the city to the rest of the country - with a target the size of France, even a balloon was bound to find it! They carried about 100 passengers back and forth, and over 2 million messages, letters, etc. In 1874 the French Army formed a Balloon Corps for reconnaissance, and other European Armies did the same in the last quarter of the 19th century.

However, the only really military use for balloons until they could be powered, moved and controlled by aerial engines was for stationary reconnaissance - the Union Army used them that way in 1862 and the US Army used them in Cuba in the Spanish-American War, but no one had any other use for air units because Gliders couldn't carry any load and were too short-ranged, and balloons were, literally, uncontrollable and unpredictable unless they were tied down. Civ VI has it right in that Balloons were primarily used to spot for artillery, but even that mission wasn't of any use until the mathematics for identifying a target the guns couldn't see were worked out (by the Russian officer K. G. Guk) in 1882 and the guns got recoil mechanisms so they could stay 'on target', which didn't happen until after 1900.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

The first Air Unit was formed in 1794: the Revolutionary French Army formed a Balloon Company which did use static (tethered) hydrogen-filled balloons for reconnaissance. They were first used in battle at Fleurus to spot Austrian troop movements, but they weren't as generally useful as Light Cavalry (which wasn't tied to a single spot!) so by 1802 the Balloon Companies (there were two formed) were disbanded.

That's why I said first use of combat balloons.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

That's why I said first use of combat balloons.

Sorry. Should have read your post more carefully.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Sorry. Should have read your post more carefully.

Lol. Sorry I guess I did say they used hydrogen. You were right. I should have re-read mine more carefully.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

This includes the uses of Balloons. I don't really agree with Observation Balloon having the shapes of zeppelin and available with TECH_FLIGHT . Observation balloons debuted sometimes during French Revolution Wars (where French Army was the first user) and Napoleon Bonaparte still used ones for some time. These kinda balloon hadn't seen any uses after that well until American Civil War and Venice rebellions (I think it is a part of Italian Unification Wars. Where Austria lost its stranglehold over Italia both of their own holdings and vassalages, and it was also the beginning of the End of Hapsburg Austria as well.)

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

The first balloons were not hydrogen, but Hot Air: Montgolfier Brothers first flight in 1783 was a hot air balloon, and the first balloon to cross the English Channel just 2 years later was also 'fueled' by hot air.

The first Air Unit was formed in 1794: the Revolutionary French Army formed a Balloon Company which did use static (tethered) hydrogen-filled balloons for reconnaissance. They were first used in battle at Fleurus to spot Austrian troop movements, but they weren't as generally useful as Light Cavalry (which wasn't tied to a single spot!) so by 1802 the Balloon Companies (there were two formed) were disbanded.

In the Siege of Paris in 1871 the French used balloons to maintain communications from the city to the rest of the country - with a target the size of France, even a balloon was bound to find it! They carried about 100 passengers back and forth, and over 2 million messages, letters, etc. In 1874 the French Army formed a Balloon Corps for reconnaissance, and other European Armies did the same in the last quarter of the 19th century.

However, the only really military use for balloons until they could be powered, moved and controlled by aerial engines was for stationary reconnaissance - the Union Army used them that way in 1862 and the US Army used them in Cuba in the Spanish-American War, but no one had any other use for air units because Gliders couldn't carry any load and were too short-ranged, and balloons were, literally, uncontrollable and unpredictable unless they were tied down. Civ VI has it right in that Balloons were primarily used to spot for artillery, but even that mission wasn't of any use until the mathematics for identifying a target the guns couldn't see were worked out (by the Russian officer K. G. Guk) in 1882 and the guns got recoil mechanisms so they could stay 'on target', which didn't happen until after 1900.

Conclusions. Should Montgolfier type balloons appear in Industrial Era (TECH_BALLISTIC) and upgradeable to Recon Airship (TECH_FLIGHT) in Modern Era?