Sureshot
Goddess
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2006
- Messages
- 3,771
i started writing down some things id like to change and try for FfH to optimize it but also change the gameplay more to my liking, i figured id post it all since ive started working on implementing it.
if anyone has some thoughts or ideas about any of it let me know, i want to make it straightforward and instant fun
FfH modmod idea
Spirit of this in progress modmod:
focus on specialization
-one expensive building and you can upgrade you favourite unit type to its highest potential if its experienced enough
less waiting to actually do stuff
-no tech reqs for improvements, resource revealing, buildings, units, civics etc.
more tactical focus like in scenarios
-smaller stack sizes, more value to experienced units, settlers more expensive, switch to great generals setup
less dependence on single things
-no resource requirements for units, only for benefits to units and such
less technology focus
-techs only for religions and magic
Technologies
techs only for spells and magic, like:
divination/lifebasic/life1/life2/life3/lifemastery/divinationmastery
divination would allow the research of life, spirit, etc.
life would allow building life nodes
life1 would allow life1 spell(s) etc. i.e. for unit to get life1 promotion it would need life mana and the life1 tech (would like many spells per level of any given mana type)
lifemastery would allow a life special ritual, maybe the building of a tower of life, and be required along with spiritmastery etc. to research divination mastery
divinationmastery would be required for tower of divination
diverse future techs if possible, maybe flavoured ones off different magic masteries.. like extra health off lifes future tech etc.
religions as techs as well:
foundreligiontech(100)/advancedreligiontech(1000)/schismtech(10000)
foundreligiontech allows building temples and first to research gets holy city
first temple steals holy city
advancedreligiontech allows cathedrals
first cathedral steals holy city
all found techs of diff religions cost same and can be researched right off, fairly cheap, we're talking like 10 turns on quick so like 100 research cost, mainly there make religion a choice each civ makes, but still allowing it early so disciple units arent delayed
schismtech provides some new bonus that is kinda above and beyond what the religion might intrinsically describe, that cause a rift with traditional, like:
(Lea)werewolves - like in loocas' werewolf civ mod
(Ash)hyborem
(Ord)basium
(Oct)something from the deep - giant krakens that can turn land to water and bring about a watery world
(Run)mithril golem and AI - new civilization of self-aware golems at war with all life
(Esu)shadowfication - all civs forget about your civilization and each other, map becomes completely unexplored for everyone else
(Emp)altar of the luonnator - civilization ascends (removed from game) and AC reverts to 0 and hell terrain disappears, can take over a new civilization to stay in game
basically all are overkill wins (usually where you can switch to a powerful doomsday civ), though if multiple are enacted it gets dicey
Economy
Improvements/Civics:
improvements anywhere, chance to find resources
make all civics relatively equal and ideally game changing, like:
city states: no state religion, +culture instead of losing
consumption: can gold rush
maybe consolidate some of the weaker civics into others
more xp on civics to help out AIs
Buildings:
use production in macro amounts to build stages, like:
training yard (1200) > forge (4800)
tier1 buildings build for tier2 units and have lots of benefits so the AI and humans enjoy building them
maybe only 1 unit types building per city
tier1 buildings that allow tier1 buildings:
X training yard allows: forge
X archery range allows: bowyers
X temples allows: cathedral
X stables allows: hippodrome
X hunting lodges allows: grove
X mage guilds allows: library
all of the tier2 buildings would merely provide bonuses to making their respective units and such, and are not required for tier3 units
training yard:
+25% military production
+2xp for melee
-25% war weariness
+1 great commander point
archery range:
+25% defense
+2xp for archery
+1 engineer slot
stables:
+2xp for mounted
+1 merchant slot
+1 trade route
hunting lodge:
+2xp for recon
+1 happiness from fur, ivory
+1 health deer
mage guild:
+2xp for arcane
+1 sage slot
+25% science
gambling house: [Esus "temple"]
+1 happy per 10% gold rate
+1 merchant slot
more bonuses for all, generally very useful buildings, advanced versions increase similarly
would cut a lot of buildings and merge some together, idea: fewer buildings that are better and more rewarding to build
all wonders requiring X of the tier1 or tier2 buildings
building research, gold, and culture available from start, same with the convert % commerce things
Units
units generally more expensive to build, since only tier1s can be built (need to upgrade tier1s to get higher tiered units), maybe warriors/etc around cost of axemen from normal
limit on how many units in a tile, maybe like 5 or 10 or so
units nationally limited in number as higher tiered, like:
renaming to warrior/soldier/champion, no tier4s, every line starting available like melee and recon, no more warrior upgrading to archers or scouts upgrading to horsemen
which would change ratios to infinite/9/3
or perhaps total of all tiers, inf/45/15, maybe with a 9:3:1 ratio req, i.e. need 3 of pre to make req like 1 soldier per 3 warriors built etc
would use a spell to upgrade instead of normal in that case
heroes could only be gotten from upgrading tier3 units to them, grigori would have an easier time getting tier3 units because of free xp from hero promotion, each hero would be rebalanced to all be of similar overall power, and more powerful than a tier3; or more ideally would have 3 stages for each hero and done similarly to how heroes are in Age of Ice scenario
need higher and higher levels to reach higher tiers, i.e. level 5+ warrior can upgrade to soldier, level 10+ soldier can upgrade to champion
all units graphics as single unit graphic, excepting hunters with their animals and similar
New unitclass upgrade structures:
warrior/soldier/champion
scout/hunter/ranger
archer/longbow/crossbow
adept/mage/archmage
disciple/priest/highpriest *requires their religion in the city
horseman/horsearcher/knight
(Emp)horseman/radiantguard/ratha
(Esu)scout/assassin/shadow
(Esu)archer/nightwatch/shadowrider [instead of getting priests]
(Run)adept/catapult/cannon
(Lea)scout/fawn/satyr
(Oct)warrior/drown/stygianguard
(Ord)disciple/crusader/paladin
(Ash)warrior/diseasedcorpse/eidolon
disciple means either a prophet or a disciple of one of the religions, let prophets "upgrade" into any disciple of a religion they want if a temple is present
Removed unitclasses:
phalanx
immortal (special mechanic: one unit can have this promotion at a time like how patriarch use to be done; maybe require a wonder for it like how shrine of sirona is done)
berserker (move to doviello and some others as their champion UU)
chariot (move the whole chariot line into the emp ratha unit and maybe as some civs mounted UUs like malakim)
warchariot
beastmaster (only as promotion, i.e. subdue beast)
marksman (only as promotion)
arquebus (move to dwarven crossbow UU)
soliderofkilmorph
nightwatch (move to esus priest)
shadowrider (move to esus "highpriest")
druid (move/merge to leaves highpriest)
dwarvendruid (move/merge to runes highpriest)
paramander
royalguards (only as promotion, i.e. guardsmen, perhaps also available to units who have Homeland already)
Special civ specific units:
freaks, remain as is, upgrades same as warrior
demagogs, same strength as a soldier
flagbearer, UU for prophet
lightbearer, UU for prophet
monk, UU for champion
grigorimedic, UU for priest that requires an infirmary
luonator, UU for highpriest
gypsywagon, UU for prophet
tier1 units not requiring any buildings; tier2 requires a building; new highest tier is tier3 and they dont require more than the tier2s units building
building reqs:
soldiers (training yard)
hunters (hunting lodge)
longbows (archery range)
mages (mage guild)
priests (temples of their religion)
horsearchers (stables)
religion units are special, not upgraded, instead it uses spell like drown and no level req, only a state religion req, also will abandon if religion changes:
religious tier2 (temples of their religion)
attack strength|defense strength,moves(A|D,M) changes:
warrior(3,1)/soldier(4,1)/champion(6,1)
scout(2,2)/hunter(3,2)/ranger(5,2)
archer(2|4,1)/longbowman(3|5,1)/crossbowman(5|7,1)
adept(2,1)/mage(3,1)/archmage(5,1)
disciple(2,1)/priest(3,1)/highpriest(5,1)
horseman(2,2)/horsearcher(3,2)/knight(5,2)
(Emp)horseman/radiantguard(4|2,2)/ratha(6|4,2)
(Esu)scout/assassin(4|2,2)/shadow(6|4,2)
(Esu)archer/nightwatch(4,1)/shadowrider(5,2) [instead of getting priests]
(Run)adept/catapult(6|1,1)/cannon(8|1,1)
(Lea)scout/fawn(3,2)/satyr(5,2)
(Oct)warrior/drown(4,1)/stygianguard(6,1)
(Ord)disciple/crusader(4,1)/paladin(6,1)
(Ash)warrior/diseasedcorpse(4,1)/eidolon(6,1)
disciples get channeling for free xp like casters, prophet unit brought back for before people have a religion
radiantguard is now a mounted type unit, war chariot graphic maybe go to ratha
channeling costs 1 point, hence why adepts+ and disciples+ get 1 less point
catapults+ are special case, stressing attack and suffering its defense more than usual
point formula used to make things equal: M+(A+D)/2=points
strengths shown is simplified, some of the units strength points would be in holy, unholy, fire, etc.
all tier1 units get 4 points
tier2 get 5
tier3 get 7
special powers of unitclasses:
horse resource access adds +1 moves to horsemen+, horse resource in this represents more and better horses, in general they have horses before they have the resource, but not prime stock
nightmares add +1 strength to horsemen+ and shadowrider
shadowriders get shadow affinity
druids get nature affinity
dwarven druids get earth affinity
warrior+ can use copper, but only soldier/crusaders/drown/diseased+ can use iron, and only champions/stygians/paladins/eidolons can use mithril
archers+ get +1 strength from silk
scouts+ can enter rival territory
adepts+ get power via technology research in the form of spells available; also +1 strength from reagents
priests+ get +1 holy strength from incense except runes who get +1 holy from gems and AV who get +1 unholy from reagents
catapults+ and crossbows gain +1 fire strength from gunpowder resource
horsearchers+, radiantguards+ and longbows+ can use copper
knights, ratha and crossbows can use iron
hunters+ can get animal companion (uses up a captured animal and gives AC promotion), which adds 1 strength
rangers can get beast companion, which adds 2 strength, stacks with AC
reagents/incense/gems are no longer requisites, instead just extra benefits from them from their respective temples/cathedrals
if anyone has some thoughts or ideas about any of it let me know, i want to make it straightforward and instant fun
FfH modmod idea
Spirit of this in progress modmod:
focus on specialization
-one expensive building and you can upgrade you favourite unit type to its highest potential if its experienced enough
less waiting to actually do stuff
-no tech reqs for improvements, resource revealing, buildings, units, civics etc.
more tactical focus like in scenarios
-smaller stack sizes, more value to experienced units, settlers more expensive, switch to great generals setup
less dependence on single things
-no resource requirements for units, only for benefits to units and such
less technology focus
-techs only for religions and magic
Technologies
techs only for spells and magic, like:
divination/lifebasic/life1/life2/life3/lifemastery/divinationmastery
divination would allow the research of life, spirit, etc.
life would allow building life nodes
life1 would allow life1 spell(s) etc. i.e. for unit to get life1 promotion it would need life mana and the life1 tech (would like many spells per level of any given mana type)
lifemastery would allow a life special ritual, maybe the building of a tower of life, and be required along with spiritmastery etc. to research divination mastery
divinationmastery would be required for tower of divination
diverse future techs if possible, maybe flavoured ones off different magic masteries.. like extra health off lifes future tech etc.
religions as techs as well:
foundreligiontech(100)/advancedreligiontech(1000)/schismtech(10000)
foundreligiontech allows building temples and first to research gets holy city
first temple steals holy city
advancedreligiontech allows cathedrals
first cathedral steals holy city
all found techs of diff religions cost same and can be researched right off, fairly cheap, we're talking like 10 turns on quick so like 100 research cost, mainly there make religion a choice each civ makes, but still allowing it early so disciple units arent delayed
schismtech provides some new bonus that is kinda above and beyond what the religion might intrinsically describe, that cause a rift with traditional, like:
(Lea)werewolves - like in loocas' werewolf civ mod
(Ash)hyborem
(Ord)basium
(Oct)something from the deep - giant krakens that can turn land to water and bring about a watery world
(Run)mithril golem and AI - new civilization of self-aware golems at war with all life
(Esu)shadowfication - all civs forget about your civilization and each other, map becomes completely unexplored for everyone else
(Emp)altar of the luonnator - civilization ascends (removed from game) and AC reverts to 0 and hell terrain disappears, can take over a new civilization to stay in game
basically all are overkill wins (usually where you can switch to a powerful doomsday civ), though if multiple are enacted it gets dicey
Economy
Improvements/Civics:
improvements anywhere, chance to find resources
make all civics relatively equal and ideally game changing, like:
city states: no state religion, +culture instead of losing
consumption: can gold rush
maybe consolidate some of the weaker civics into others
more xp on civics to help out AIs
Buildings:
use production in macro amounts to build stages, like:
training yard (1200) > forge (4800)
tier1 buildings build for tier2 units and have lots of benefits so the AI and humans enjoy building them
maybe only 1 unit types building per city
tier1 buildings that allow tier1 buildings:
X training yard allows: forge
X archery range allows: bowyers
X temples allows: cathedral
X stables allows: hippodrome
X hunting lodges allows: grove
X mage guilds allows: library
all of the tier2 buildings would merely provide bonuses to making their respective units and such, and are not required for tier3 units
training yard:
+25% military production
+2xp for melee
-25% war weariness
+1 great commander point
archery range:
+25% defense
+2xp for archery
+1 engineer slot
stables:
+2xp for mounted
+1 merchant slot
+1 trade route
hunting lodge:
+2xp for recon
+1 happiness from fur, ivory
+1 health deer
mage guild:
+2xp for arcane
+1 sage slot
+25% science
gambling house: [Esus "temple"]
+1 happy per 10% gold rate
+1 merchant slot
more bonuses for all, generally very useful buildings, advanced versions increase similarly
would cut a lot of buildings and merge some together, idea: fewer buildings that are better and more rewarding to build
all wonders requiring X of the tier1 or tier2 buildings
building research, gold, and culture available from start, same with the convert % commerce things
Units
units generally more expensive to build, since only tier1s can be built (need to upgrade tier1s to get higher tiered units), maybe warriors/etc around cost of axemen from normal
limit on how many units in a tile, maybe like 5 or 10 or so
units nationally limited in number as higher tiered, like:
renaming to warrior/soldier/champion, no tier4s, every line starting available like melee and recon, no more warrior upgrading to archers or scouts upgrading to horsemen
which would change ratios to infinite/9/3
or perhaps total of all tiers, inf/45/15, maybe with a 9:3:1 ratio req, i.e. need 3 of pre to make req like 1 soldier per 3 warriors built etc
would use a spell to upgrade instead of normal in that case
heroes could only be gotten from upgrading tier3 units to them, grigori would have an easier time getting tier3 units because of free xp from hero promotion, each hero would be rebalanced to all be of similar overall power, and more powerful than a tier3; or more ideally would have 3 stages for each hero and done similarly to how heroes are in Age of Ice scenario
need higher and higher levels to reach higher tiers, i.e. level 5+ warrior can upgrade to soldier, level 10+ soldier can upgrade to champion
all units graphics as single unit graphic, excepting hunters with their animals and similar
New unitclass upgrade structures:
warrior/soldier/champion
scout/hunter/ranger
archer/longbow/crossbow
adept/mage/archmage
disciple/priest/highpriest *requires their religion in the city
horseman/horsearcher/knight
(Emp)horseman/radiantguard/ratha
(Esu)scout/assassin/shadow
(Esu)archer/nightwatch/shadowrider [instead of getting priests]
(Run)adept/catapult/cannon
(Lea)scout/fawn/satyr
(Oct)warrior/drown/stygianguard
(Ord)disciple/crusader/paladin
(Ash)warrior/diseasedcorpse/eidolon
disciple means either a prophet or a disciple of one of the religions, let prophets "upgrade" into any disciple of a religion they want if a temple is present
Removed unitclasses:
phalanx
immortal (special mechanic: one unit can have this promotion at a time like how patriarch use to be done; maybe require a wonder for it like how shrine of sirona is done)
berserker (move to doviello and some others as their champion UU)
chariot (move the whole chariot line into the emp ratha unit and maybe as some civs mounted UUs like malakim)
warchariot
beastmaster (only as promotion, i.e. subdue beast)
marksman (only as promotion)
arquebus (move to dwarven crossbow UU)
soliderofkilmorph
nightwatch (move to esus priest)
shadowrider (move to esus "highpriest")
druid (move/merge to leaves highpriest)
dwarvendruid (move/merge to runes highpriest)
paramander
royalguards (only as promotion, i.e. guardsmen, perhaps also available to units who have Homeland already)
Special civ specific units:
freaks, remain as is, upgrades same as warrior
demagogs, same strength as a soldier
flagbearer, UU for prophet
lightbearer, UU for prophet
monk, UU for champion
grigorimedic, UU for priest that requires an infirmary
luonator, UU for highpriest
gypsywagon, UU for prophet
tier1 units not requiring any buildings; tier2 requires a building; new highest tier is tier3 and they dont require more than the tier2s units building
building reqs:
soldiers (training yard)
hunters (hunting lodge)
longbows (archery range)
mages (mage guild)
priests (temples of their religion)
horsearchers (stables)
religion units are special, not upgraded, instead it uses spell like drown and no level req, only a state religion req, also will abandon if religion changes:
religious tier2 (temples of their religion)
attack strength|defense strength,moves(A|D,M) changes:
warrior(3,1)/soldier(4,1)/champion(6,1)
scout(2,2)/hunter(3,2)/ranger(5,2)
archer(2|4,1)/longbowman(3|5,1)/crossbowman(5|7,1)
adept(2,1)/mage(3,1)/archmage(5,1)
disciple(2,1)/priest(3,1)/highpriest(5,1)
horseman(2,2)/horsearcher(3,2)/knight(5,2)
(Emp)horseman/radiantguard(4|2,2)/ratha(6|4,2)
(Esu)scout/assassin(4|2,2)/shadow(6|4,2)
(Esu)archer/nightwatch(4,1)/shadowrider(5,2) [instead of getting priests]
(Run)adept/catapult(6|1,1)/cannon(8|1,1)
(Lea)scout/fawn(3,2)/satyr(5,2)
(Oct)warrior/drown(4,1)/stygianguard(6,1)
(Ord)disciple/crusader(4,1)/paladin(6,1)
(Ash)warrior/diseasedcorpse(4,1)/eidolon(6,1)
disciples get channeling for free xp like casters, prophet unit brought back for before people have a religion
radiantguard is now a mounted type unit, war chariot graphic maybe go to ratha
channeling costs 1 point, hence why adepts+ and disciples+ get 1 less point
catapults+ are special case, stressing attack and suffering its defense more than usual
point formula used to make things equal: M+(A+D)/2=points
strengths shown is simplified, some of the units strength points would be in holy, unholy, fire, etc.
all tier1 units get 4 points
tier2 get 5
tier3 get 7
special powers of unitclasses:
horse resource access adds +1 moves to horsemen+, horse resource in this represents more and better horses, in general they have horses before they have the resource, but not prime stock
nightmares add +1 strength to horsemen+ and shadowrider
shadowriders get shadow affinity
druids get nature affinity
dwarven druids get earth affinity
warrior+ can use copper, but only soldier/crusaders/drown/diseased+ can use iron, and only champions/stygians/paladins/eidolons can use mithril
archers+ get +1 strength from silk
scouts+ can enter rival territory
adepts+ get power via technology research in the form of spells available; also +1 strength from reagents
priests+ get +1 holy strength from incense except runes who get +1 holy from gems and AV who get +1 unholy from reagents
catapults+ and crossbows gain +1 fire strength from gunpowder resource
horsearchers+, radiantguards+ and longbows+ can use copper
knights, ratha and crossbows can use iron
hunters+ can get animal companion (uses up a captured animal and gives AC promotion), which adds 1 strength
rangers can get beast companion, which adds 2 strength, stacks with AC
reagents/incense/gems are no longer requisites, instead just extra benefits from them from their respective temples/cathedrals
