firaxis- a model for user friendly companies

[eli_co]

i am really mad at them.
i am going back to the point of no scenarios at the first release, yes once again, i still think it was a very unhonest move, and they say no one promised it, but i didnt see that fact written on the cover of the game which i bought.
they didnt promise save and load options too, but they were there, i guess that if i couldnt save a game they would say :"hey , we didnt promise it, show us where it was written..."
anyway, leave that, what really makes me mad is that when had a chance to fix that abnormality in the game in this patch, they didnt, we all know that no decent historic scenario can be made this way, i just fear the moment that i will play the first ww2 scenario, and the English will attack the americans and ally with hitler( i bet Churchill would have been proud...)
the most irritating thing about the diplomacy thing is, that they dont comment on it, its been on about a 100 posts, especially in the bug thread, and they commented on anything else, except on that, they talked about bic files, vbrus problems and hell knows what more...
i wont tell them to be men again, but i think that its a basic rule when you run a business that you respond to your costumers on questions they have, even if writing an answer will not be comfortable.
guys at firaxis, many people want to know whats up with that diplomacy thing, why did it happen, and are you going to fix it or not.
i can take any answer , even : "look, we want PTW to be successful , so we had to leave it out" , but damnet, just give a answer on the subject.
thanks in advance, and sorry for the english spelling mistakes

 

[Myartar]

Preach on Eli!!!

 

[Matt_G]

They commented on it yesterday during a chat at Poly.

The Diplomacy Editor question was the like the second question asked and the answer was that it and all 'event' editing is on the wishlist for PTW. So you might not even get it then..............

 

[eli_co]

Originally posted by Matt_G
They commented on it yesterday during a chat at Poly.

The Diplomacy Editor question was the like the second question asked and the answer was that it and all 'event' editing is on the wishlist for PTW. So you might not even get it then..............

if what you are saying is true(and i find it hard to believe!)
then civ3 is the only game i know that gets worse while its evolution progresses...
this is truly amazing, are they bloody regressing us to civ1?
wish list...

 

[rangers85]

but i think that its a basic rule when you run a business that you respond to your costumers on questions they have, even if writing an answer will not be comfortable.

.

I'm my opinion, you should be glad they even respond. Not many other company's employees actually visit fan sites and post.

Also, save & load is a basic function, it's in pretty much every game that lasts more than 15 minutes. It's more than stupid to compare something like scenarios to a save and load option.

In my opinion, you all take patches for granted. Many companies only post 1, maybe 2 patches and the company is never heard from again concerning that game. Here we've had 4 patches now and the company is still visible on fan sites ect. answering stuff. I just don't get you people sometimes.

 

[JollyRoger]

Originally posted by Matt_G
They commented on it yesterday during a chat at Poly.

The Diplomacy Editor question was the like the second question asked and the answer was that it and all 'event' editing is on the wishlist for PTW. So you might not even get it then..............

More than likely, these "wishlist items" will be sold in a second expansion pack. Why give away multiplayer and true scenario creation when it can be sold in not one, but two expansion packs. It should be obvious that Firaxis cannot leave out such highly anticipated items and expect to have success with Civ4. Multiplayer and scenarios keep the game alive between sequals. Its just going to cost the gamer $110 instead of $50. I have got my $50 worth from Civ3 - Play With Yourself and will shell out the money for Civ3 - Play the World. But at some point, my marginal propensity to have my gaming dollars consumed by a company adept at tease and denial will reach a point of diminishing returns.

 

[Zouave]

. . . Civ3 - Play With Yourself and will shell out the money for Civ3 - Play the World. But at some point, my marginal propensity to have my gaming dollars consumed by a company adept at tease and denial will reach a point of diminishing returns.

That is too funny. "Play With Yourself". That's what we had to do since so much of Civ 3 was a mess when I got it with the other turkeys last Thanksgiving.

Firaxis: The Fiery Axis of Tease and Denial.

 

[Myartar]

Originally posted by rangers85
.

I'm my opinion, you should be glad they even respond. Not many other company's employees actually visit fan sites and post.

Why should we be glad they do the work they should do? If I understand the job descriptions on the Firaxis website, they actually pay a guy to do this stuff. Granted, more than one person visits the sites, and I'm thankful to a point, but I really beleive this is something all companies who want to be succesful should pay attention to the consumers.

Originally posted by rangers85
.
Also, save & load is a basic function, it's in pretty much every game that lasts more than 15 minutes. It's more than stupid to compare something like scenarios to a save and load option.

When referring to civ III, I think the comparison is perfect. The senario creation feature was a big draw to new gamers and very popular feature with civ vets. When you make a sequel, you don't take away a popular feature and make the consumers PAY EXTRA to have it(no good senarios can come out of this patch). That's not good marketing, that gouging.

Originally posted by rangers85
.
In my opinion, you all take patches for granted. Many companies only post 1, maybe 2 patches and the company is never heard from again concerning that game. Here we've had 4 patches now and the company is still visible on fan sites ect. answering stuff. I just don't get you people sometimes

This is another thing, why be happy they try and make a perfect product? The product was very visably flawed when they relased it, so they should put out as many patches as needed. I think Blizzard is the best at patching thier software. Seems like everytime I log to Bnet for Starcraft or Diablo II, there's another patch! More companies need to follow Blizzard's example in so many areas.....

 

[bobgote]

Firaxis. George Bush should name it in his axis of evil.

And Blizzard is just exceptional. I think they're the only company that do that, and come out with quality games every time.

 

[OmniMower]

I agree with Myartar on this one.
We have to live with patches until the companies learn the lesson not to put out an nearly finished game on the market, just for getting it out rather wait a little bit longer for more tests.

 

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by Myartar
Why should we be glad they do the work they should do? If I understand the job descriptions on the Firaxis website, they actually pay a guy to do this stuff. Granted, more than one person visits the sites, and I'm thankful to a point, but I really beleive this is something all companies who want to be succesful should pay attention to the consumers.

You're right. They should. But they don't. Only a few out of hundreds of companies do that. Firaxis is one of them. We should be glad they're being good examples for all the other companies.

When referring to civ III, I think the comparison is perfect. The senario creation feature was a big draw to new gamers and very popular feature with civ vets. When you make a sequel, you don't take away a popular feature and make the consumers PAY EXTRA to have it(no good senarios can come out of this patch). That's not good marketing, that gouging.

A good scenario editor is something I'd hoped to have in the initial release too. But unfortunately, they didn't have time to put one in. There was a lot of design changes mid-way into the project when a few guys left. That will put any schedule behind. Now, not only did they lose part of the team and had to redesign part of the project, but the people who remain have to do more than expected. Each of these guys is doing the work of 2 or 3 guys.

This is another thing, why be happy they try and make a perfect product? The product was very visably flawed when they relased it, so they should put out as many patches as needed. I think Blizzard is the best at patching thier software. Seems like everytime I log to Bnet for Starcraft or Diablo II, there's another patch! More companies need to follow Blizzard's example in so many areas.....

We should be happy because they don't have to. Blizzard is one of the few other companies that is as good as Firaxis in the PR area. Are all these patches simply to improve their PR? Maybe, but I don't think half the development team stopping by the forums is.

Let me explain the overall situation.
The project got way off track mid-way through like I said before. So the release date is approaching. What do you do? Firaxis promised a date, they didn't want to be a company that makes excuses then released 8 months later. The only options are to 1) release on time (or near to it), with a few flaws expected and not as much included as they'd like, but they patch later, or 2) release 8, 10 months, a year later with all the stuff they want, probably get a lot fewer sales, and end up losing 5 million dollars.
Keep in mind until that until a copy of the game has been sold, a company has made zero dollars. The longer it takes to complete a game, the more money they lose.

Am I making excuses? No. Am I a fan-boy trying to cover-up for them? No. This is just the way it is in the game industry. It's kind of like life... you can do all you can to make things go well, but every now and then you make a mistake or something goes wrong, and you have to be made accountable. Only in this industry, the effects of accidents are amplified many many times over.

So all I'm asking is that you realize what situation they have to deal with before saying "They should have released a perfect game on time for $50 with a scenario editor included and PtW should be a patch because MP is a requirement these days".

Have a nice day.

 

[Reboot]

Actually, I don't think we'll be all that bothered if Firaxis DID delay the release some months.

Firaxis has made several other games already, so I don't think they're completely penniless and in desperate need of cash.

 

[Tassadar]

Originally posted by bobgote
Firaxis. George Bush should name it in his axis of evil.

And Blizzard is just exceptional. I think they're the only company that do that, and come out with quality games every time.

Sierra is a very good company too, half life is one of the best game, and after a few YEAR they still give us free new map and update.

 

[IceBlaZe]

Well half life is more Valve than Sierra in development.
Anyway how bout Blue-Shift? Full priced XP and one of the crappiest ever.

 

[simwiz2]

Yeah, Blue Shift even has a bug where the flashlight doesn't work so it is almost impossible to get through certain parts of the game. Not the best HL game.

OTOH, HL: Counterstrike is one of the best FPS IMO. At least 4 patches, another patch coming, realistic recoil and accuracy, fast-paced, lots of different weapons, and best of all MP.

 

[Dan Magaha FIRAXIS]

Originally posted by Myartar

If I understand the job descriptions on the Firaxis website, they actually pay a guy to do this stuff.

If you're referring to me, your assumption is incorrect. As I am neither the producer for Civ, nor (any longer) the web guy, any time I spend posting on fansites is "my own time"..


Dan

 

[Jon Shafer]

And most of us recognize that it's your own time and we thank you Dan. Ignore they nay-sayers, they don't understand how the industry works, nor do they care.

 

[Myartar]

Originally posted by Trip



A good scenario editor is something I'd hoped to have in the initial release too. But unfortunately, they didn't have time to put one in. There was a lot of design changes mid-way into the project when a few guys left. That will put any schedule behind. Now, not only did they lose part of the team and had to redesign part of the project, but the people who remain have to do more than expected. Each of these guys is doing the work of 2 or 3 guys.

Let me explain the overall situation.
The project got way off track mid-way through like I said before. So the release date is approaching. What do you do? Firaxis promised a date, they didn't want to be a company that makes excuses then released 8 months later. The only options are to 1) release on time (or near to it), with a few flaws expected and not as much included as they'd like, but they patch later, or 2) release 8, 10 months, a year later with all the stuff they want, probably get a lot fewer sales, and end up losing 5 million dollars.
Keep in mind until that until a copy of the game has been sold, a company has made zero dollars. The longer it takes to complete a game, the more money they lose.

The main thing that stuck out about the whole story you told here was this: they didn't want to be a company that makes excuses then released 8 months later. I understand that... Now they're the company that releases a sub-par product to many of it's fans on time, and they makes excuses. Excuses are more acceptable when the client/consumer is satisfied with the result. Otherwise, those excuses are hard to accept as a good reason.

Next, delaying the release would not have hurt them all that much, if hurt them at all. John Q. Gamebuyer doesn't read the game preview magazines or websites, rather, they know a game is out and good from advertising and word of mouth. This is just a rough guess, but I'd bet not more than 10-15% of all people who bought civ III would have been dissapointed or even angry if it was delayed. I'd also guess only 20-25% of all people who bought the game even knew it was coming out when it did. I know I didn't and I'm a Civ2 Fanatic®!

The gameing industry is just a small branch of the entertainment industry, and one fact remains constant for all branches: Word of mouth is the best and most common form of advertising. Civ III recieved the reviews it did in it's very flawed state, imagine what those reviews and the word of mouth would have been like if it was released perfect!!

Oh, two more thing. The gaming industry isn't some complex organism that works nothing like any other, it's just part of the entertainment industry and acts as such, no different. And Dan, don't ignore the "nay-sayers". When Firaxis and other companies begin to ignore critics, you'll be out of a job.