[NFP] [FIXED in 1.0.8.4 or earlier] [1.0.3.31] AIs broke on lump gold pay 1 GpT for 1 strat. ressource

[Pfeffersack]

First reported with [1.0.1.501]

If an AI has no more lump Gold in it Treasury, it will pay 1 GpT for a single strategic ressource:

Thats quite a lot and very questionable, even if they should have a dire deed for that ressource. However, even if the ability for the AI to still buy ressources for an increased price in that situation is intended or acceptable, it then doesn't make sense in my book that the AI pays the same price for 2 ressources Units then:

Because that means in the end it is best to milk the AI with single-ressource-selling...

I would like to see the AI either refusing deals with low amounts of ressources in that case - or even better, make them demand an sufficient quantity of ressources in exchange for them paying 1 Gpt (e.g. 5), if you ask them what they see as an acceptable deal.


To reproduce with the attached save:

Load it and offer Gorgo the deals shown in the pics.

 

[Victoria]

Please please firaxis, can we just stop all these gold exploits. They have plagued the game since day one. How about some decent playtesting in this area?

 

[Pinkypie]

Yep trade is broken... couldn't figure out how to open tga files for screen shots but here is a save. If they don't have any lump gold or too low of a amount the AI will trade 1 gpt for resources and favor regardless of how much they have unless they are maxed out. This bug is extremely exploitable I could sell Tamar 1 horse for 1 gpt buy them back for a few lump sum than sell them back to her for 1gpt. Same concept for favor. Eventually in one of my games it started getting crashes and visual graphic issues due to the amount of trades. This expansion has caused my first ever civ 6 crash since civ6 came out. I also found that Tamar was offering very high lump sum of 17 gold for 1 favor. In my last 3 games since the update the AI sells luxuries for extremely cheap prices like 2gpt and some gold.

Somthing happened to trade after this new expansion. I know I can just not exploit the game and play fairly with the AI when it comes to trades but this problem did not exist before. Also with the odd favor and resources trades going on as well its hard to tell if im cheating the AI or this new trade is intentional. Personally for me it breaks the game, is there a way to revert back to GS just until they fix this bug?

 

[Victoria]

Personally for me it breaks the game,

Certainly takes the fun out of any competitive competition.
I choose not to use it and am not competitive but it’s hard to discern who uses such things in games referenced in the forum.

 

[Pinkypie]

One more thing I forgot to mention the AI will continue trading for resources with these absurd prices passed the 40 stockpiled limit until completely maxed out. Before they would stop offering the typical 2-5 lump gold and only offer 1 lump gold if they had any past 40 stockpile(standard speed). If they didn't have any lump gold they wouldn't even trade.

 

[Raven_2012]

If an AI has no more lump Gold in it Treasury, it will pay 1 GpT for a single strategic ressource:

View attachment 556871

Thats quite a lot and very questionable, even if they should have a dire deed for that ressource. However, even if the ability for the AI to still buy ressources for an increased price in that situation is intended or acceptable, it then doesn't make sense in my book that the AI pays the same price for 2 ressources Units then:

View attachment 556872

Because that means in the end it is best to milk the AI with single-ressource-selling...

I would like to see the AI either refusing deals with low amounts of ressources in that case - or even better, make them demand an sufficient quantity of ressources in exchange for them paying 1 Gpt (e.g. 5), if you ask them what they see as an acceptable deal.


To reproduce with the attached save:

Load it and offer Gorgo the deals shown in the pics.

I had something similar in my last game. I need like Uranium for my Reactors and I would but like 20 for like 2 gold. lol

 

[Pfeffersack]

One more thing I forgot to mention the AI will continue trading for resources with these absurd prices passed the 40 stockpiled limit until completely maxed out. Before they would stop offering the typical 2-5 lump gold and only offer 1 lump gold if they had any past 40 stockpile(standard speed). If they didn't have any lump gold they wouldn't even trade.

Ouch. I never realized that in the case of being beyond the purchase limit for a ressource and being broke at the same time, the AI can't do their usual behaviour of offering 1 lump Gold for 1 ressource unit anymore and "replace" it by offering 1 GpT. Here is an example from my current game showing this crazyness:

To reproduce with the attached save:

Load it and offer Bismarck the deal shown above

 

[Equilin]

I will drop by and say that abusing this (somewhere near 100 times) will likely lead to crash and save being unable to load

 

[Qwan]

I believe the problem is that, when trading with AI civs, the AI appears to round in the player's favor. This also leads to getting the best prices when selling 1 of a strategic (or a small number if one prefers gpt). This is user-unfriendly in that, to maximize benefit, one needs to sell small numbers repeatedly. The fix I suggest is to round in the AI's favor, i.e. round down instead of up what the player would get.

 

[Pfeffersack]

This is still happening in v1.0.3.31:

Spoiler :

 

[sessa]

TRADE IN STRATEGIC RESOURCES is one big mistake. It is almost unplayable as it is made:
1. The player needs to monitor the overflow of warehouses
2. The price of a resource unit offered by the AI is not rounded in one direction. That's why in different cases it is more profitable to sell at 1, 2, 3 or other quantities. The player does not need to think about how it is more profitable to sell - this distracts from the essence of the game, so the price should be determined so that it is always more profitable for the player to sell the maximum amount.
3. When an AI does not have enough cash to buy an unit of a resource, it pays 1 gold per unit of resource for 30 moves.
This should not be so - this is a bug that allows you to "rob" the AI, and also:
- create an annoying monotonous process of selling a resource by 1 unit;
- lead to the crash of the game due to overflow of memory allocated for 30-move trades.

I believe that the correct implementation of resource trading would be to create a "world exchange":
1. The cost of a resource on the exchange is determined by the supply-demand balance:
- the selling price on the stock exchange in the absence of demand is minimal and = 1;
- the purchase price of a resource in the absence of an offer is maximum and ten times higher than the nominal.
2. The surplus resource is always automatically sold to the exchange.
3. The exchange always has a resource available, even if none of the players sells it.

 

[Pfeffersack]

2. The price of a resource unit offered by the AI is not rounded in one direction. That's why in different cases it is more profitable to sell at 1, 2, 3 or other quantities. The player does not need to think about how it is more profitable to sell - this distracts from the essence of the game, so the price should be determined so that it is always more profitable for the player to sell the maximum amount.

I overall agree with that statement (like I do with the rest of the issues you listed), though for my taste some slight rounding is ok - even if it doesn't happen always in the same direction. If it is needed to make the AI counter-offer function working (and I belive that is one of the reasons for the small discrepancies), I'm ok...as long as we are talking here about 1 or 2 Gold for a large quantity of ressources. I can live with the AI buying 10 units Iron for 40 Gold, but offering "only" 79 Gold for 20 Units.

What is though inacceptable is that you can't sell them their full intended maximum storage in one deal for a resonable price - and especially the case of Uranium, where you are are forced into the worst micro transactions for most gain:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...strategic-ressource-units-in-one-deal.658382/

https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...for-excessive-prices-60-gold-per-unit.658754/