For the Horde Timing

[mcwill123]

When playing Clan of Embers, when do you cast For the Horde? I'm currently playing Jonas. I don't want to use it too early and cripple my economy, but also want to use it while it will still do some good. I'd be interested in hearing your opions.

 

[Senethro]

I don't think there is a good way to use it except for intercontinental trade. Use it early and it wrecks your economy. Use it late and theres no barbarians left. If your game settings mean theres lots of barbarians on the map early then pop it at once and try to grab a bunch of huts

 

[Breunor]

I've wondered this also. I tend to use it early. If my economy is suffering I just disband units or attack someone. When it works it can be spectacular. Don't forget to pillage with the new guys, it can make up some of the cost.

Best wishes,

Breunor

 

[Emptiness]

I usually pop For the Horde when I begin to see Barbarian orcs starting to spawn. Any Scorpion Clan units I get are worth trying to keep, the rest I only keep situationally (ie depending on the damage they are doing to my economy). Goblins will try to seek out wolves, orcs will explore. Most of those will end up dying quickly anyway. My aim is to find a Goblin Fort near another civ's capital (close to mine, if possible), and get as much gold as possible from tribal villages. I'll buy 20 or so goblins from the fort and crush my target civ, keeping the capital if it is close to me or razing it if it is not. Then, depending on available funding, I repeat with another civ. Once practical targets or gold are exhausted I'll disband any unpromoted units (except for Wolf Riders and Scorpion Clan units) and draw the rest back into my territory.

 

[DaveGold]

I would agree with Emptiness that you can get lucky with a number of units near an opponent and capture a city. You can then use your home cities as a financial base to support a war in the distant city, mass producing units with warrens. For this reason I tend to build markets early with the clan and try to establish a decent income before casting the horde spell. It's very hit and miss though.

One time I wiped out some Malakim all the way across the map on a distant island. Their city sites were really bad so I probably lost out economically by holding it. They refused to become a colony for most of the game and when they finally did they broke away telling me I was too far away (which is the whole point of a colony surely?), only became someone else's vassal the turn later. It seemed little reward for a lot of effort. What's up with the "you're too powerful for us" (to become your vassal) issue as well? That makes no sense either and just extends games that need closure.

 

[Emptiness]

What's up with the "you're too powerful for us" (to become your vassal) issue as well? That makes no sense either and just extends games that need closure.

It's to prevent a powerful civ from intimidating many weaker civs into vassalage without any combat taking place, which would cause sudden massive power shifts. For example, imagine you and an opponent are of similar power levels (with the opponent having a larger army, and perhaps you a tech advantage), and the other civs in the game all being small and much weaker than either of you. Your 'close game' might suddenly become 'you versus the world' if the other civ's large army allowed them to vassalize every other civ in the game. The way it is now, they might be able to vassalize one or two civs peacefully but then the rest would refuse because of their growing power level.

 

[DaveGold]

The way it is now, they might be able to vassalize one or two civs peacefully but then the rest would refuse because of their growing power level.

The way it is now you have to declare war on all your allies and pretty much wipe them out in order to win the game. Some people have posted that they don't actually finish off many games and I suspect this is one reason why.

 

[mcwill123]

Thanks for the comments. I called For the HOrde as soon as I got back to the game on turn 114. Found one or two gold huts, no techs. Was able to get most of the orcs back to the home country. That along with warrens kicking in, allowed Jonas to take half of the Sheim cities (2). Rested a bit in the farthest one and then saw a stack of pyre zombies. That lead to a quick peace. After 10 turns Sheim declared war. I abandoned the farthest city to shore up my defense. The AI Sheim was chicken, so we were at a standoff. It took them 3-4 turns just to attack the empty city. At that point I noticed a settler and a couple warriors that had been standing in the wilderness at my north for probably 50 turns and decided to chuck the game and restart. Started another game as Jonas, Popped the spell after I had some kind of economy established. (Sometime between turns 50 and 100) Again didn't find anything even a wolf, although I did get some lucky events. (Two great people before turn 30) I did manage to get a goodly number of promoted warriors and archers back home and it allowed me to concentrate on the economy and expansion for a quite some time. So now its like turn 200. The orcs have a solid aristocracy/agrarianism ecomomy and are spending 50-60% on science and have the largest empire in the world. Also they just founded Empyreanism and are working toward picking up Chalid. All in all a fun time so far. Thanks again.