GOTM 53 - first spoiler - entering the middle ages

[ainwood]

GOTM 53 First Spoiler

To qualify for this spoiler, you must have:

1. Reached the middle-ages.
2. Met all other civilizations.
3. Have enough of the world map to know the locations of all capital cities.

What was your strategy in the early game? Did you try to get off the starting continent and use your unique unit to full effect? Or are you more content to expand peacefully, and wait until the middle ages to begin military expansion?

 

[Crakie]

I built 4 cities on the starting island and beelined for MM. By the time I got it, the island was fully improved with barracks everywhere and a couple of pre-builds for galleys, which swarmed around the world to meet everyone pretty soon. I built two additional cities, one to claim furs, the other to claim horses. The rest was GS, GS, GS for the rest of the game, claiming conquest victory at 760 AD.

I never built another single city improvement in the core and stayed in despotism: my production of GS was good enough. I did use a leader to make Rome my FP city and built a couple of cities around it... again, they only made a barracks and then GS. I did keep on researching because I wasn't sure if GS would have to face pikes. In the end I made it all the way to chivalry (I dodged feudalism for a long time to be able to keep building GS) and even built a couple of MI and knights, but never had to use them. So it's an AAC I guess.

I should have incited warfare between the Vikings and the Iroqois while I was dealing with the rest of the world, because the latter put up a pretty good fight. The lack of infrastructure really slowed me down. I had galleys shuttling GS between the islands all the time, and workers roading the tiles inbetween rally points, but could not keep up with my progress.

 

[Più Freddo]

Predator Conquest Challenge

Having A Lonely Start

My first move was to move the Worker up on the hill south-west of the
starting location. Plenty of grassland but no fresh water nor any Food
Bonus came in sight, so I settled in place and founded Entremont in
4000 BC. Production was set to Warrior, research to Pottery and the
science budget to 100%. The Worker was sent to mine and then road the
Bonus Grassland north-north-west.

After the Warrior I set production to Barracks in the hope of having a
close-by neighbour. Having failed to locate one in the south, I
changed to Settler as a pre-build for a Granary. Reaching 30 Shields
one turn before discovering Pottery I lost five Shields (my per-turn
quantum) before I could switch. Still better than other available
pre-builds. Granary completed in 3050 BC.

The Worker after finishing improving the Bonus Grassland trekked back
south to chop down the forest on the Game. Since this was Play the
World, the timber helped promote the construction not of the Granary
nor of the first Settler after the Granary, but that of the second
Settler.

I operated a flexible Combo Factory with Settlers arriving
approximately every ten turns and forest chops aiding the construction
of a fairly early Barracks (1870 BC) and later a Temple in the capital
motivated by the shortage of luxuries.

4000 BC Found Entremont
2630 BC Found Mohács
2350 BC Found Lugdunum
1950 BC Found Camulodunum
1600 BC Found Richborough
1400 BC Found Verulamium​

Three cities were placed at distance 4 from the capital and two
further away on the extreme points of the island. I actually harvested
the forest on the south-eastern spit before settling there.

The reason I founded the third distance-4 city, Verulamium, last was
that I had originally planned to found it at distance 3 on the Bonus
Grassland in order to maximise the number of coastal tiles that could
be worked. Rather late I realised, that the cost in corruption would
probably negate any commercial profits and that shields are more
important than gold when taking over the world using Gallic Swordsmen.

3300 BC Discover Pottery
2350 BC Discover Alphabet
1650 BC Discover Writing
1125 BC Discover Map Making​

At this time, Entermont had stopped building Settlers and in 1075 my
first Galley was launched in this city, after which a Harbor was
constructed.


Quick Start Challenge Results

6 Cities
20 Citizens
2 Temples
1 Granary
3 Barracks
2 Harbors
5 Workers
12 Warriors
1 Galley​

2077 QSC Points


Learning about the Neighbours

I sent the Galley east and north searching farthest first and met the
others fairly late. The first three alien tribes had made the same
discoveries as I and more, but luckily I then met Egypt who not only
hadn't, but also as the only one knew Polytheism.

850 BC Meet Rome
850 BC Learn The Wheel
850 BC Learn Bronze Working
850 BC Discover Code of Laws
825 BC Meet Scandinavia
825 BC Meet Iroquois
825 BC Meet Egypt
825 BC Learn Polytheism
825 BC Learn Mysticism
825 BC Learn Masonry
825 BC Learn Iron Working
825 BC Learn Horseback Riding​

I now founded three cities off shore in order to claim in order:
Horses, Furs and Incense. I also as first met Babylon and learned some
more technologies.

750 BC Found Gergovia
590 BC Found Augustodurum
410 BC Found Agedincum​

710 BC Meet Babylon
710 BC Learn Mathematics
690 BC Learn Philosophy
690 BC Discover Literature
390 BC Learn Construction​

Getting to The Main Business

It was time to get started with conquering the world. Rome would have
to suffer my Gallic Swords first. Unfortunately the attack would
trigger a Golden Age while I was still ruling through Despotism, but I
had a very dirty trick up my sleeve...

150 BC War Rome
150 BC Enter Golden Age
150 BC Capture Antium
130 BC Capture Lutetia
70 BC Capture Rome
70 BC Peace Rome
70 BC Learn The Republic
70 BC Learn Currency
70 BC Instigate Revolution
70 BC War Rome
50 BC Establish Republic​

After capturing Rome (the city), I made peace with Rome (the tribe)
for gpt, traded for The Republic and Currency, entered the Middle Ages
and instigated a revolution only to then declare war on Rome again
before the turn was over, nullifying, together with the spotlessness
of my reputation, the gpt deal. The next turn the rule of Republic was
established in my lands and only one turn of Golden-Age commerce and
production had been lost thanks to the Religious Trait of the Celts.



The island in 1000 BC:

 

[TheHaze]

I move the Worker SE and decide to found Entremont 2SE. In hindsight this made me lose two movements without any real benefits.

Research is set to Pottery and then I go straight to MM which is the last tech I will research myself. For the rest of the game science is set to 0 and I stay in despotism through to the end.

I found four more cities on the starting island that as I soon find out is completely to myself. In all five cities I build granaries, barracks and temples (as I have some happiness concerns), no other improvements are ever to be constructed except for one harbour. Production is entirely dedicated to warriors and gs (once iron is connected).

The neighbour island is visible from the southern tip and I place a warrior there. Soon enough a roman warrior steps by and my contact is then sold to everyone subsequently so that I know all tribes before leaving my island. Unfortunately all the others think I am so backwards that they are very reluctant selling techs. I barely manage to get BW and IW, but that proves to be enough.

Fortunately there is iron on our island so I start upgrading warriors and producing gs. I also have two prebuilds running for galleys.

Soon after learning MM I complete galleys and move my gs and immediately declare on the romans. Real luck with leaders then, I get a leader on my 2nd or 3rd elite win. I extort all techs, money from the romans for peace and that gets me literature. The next turn I build the great library and redeclare on the romans. All throughout the game I would sue for peace to get some cities that were off my track and would immediately redeclare. Astonishingly the AI would still give me peace deals??

Got another leader and build the FP in Rome. Soon the romans are gone and I take on the egypts. I get another leader that builds me an army (stupid, as with my limited tech knowledge I will never be able to move that thing off the egyptian island).

Midway in the egyptian campaign the Great Library brings me into the MA. However, I am never going to discover a MA tech and fortunately nobody ever builds pikes (the iroquois discover feudalism but do not connect their iron, so much for AI).

 

[azzaman333]

I have so far attacked rome, and have taken most of the land north of Rome. I got a GL, and used him to make an army. I thought about going for the FP, but decided getting a leader for Hero Epic to get more leaders would be more advantageous.

Current plan is to conquer Rome and Egypt, then research my way to a SS vic.

 

[FadeAwayNot]

Well, I had a badly flawed game plan and some bad luck giving me an absolutely horrific ancient age. I wanted to attempt a 100k victory, and made a mistake in building early temples in all the home island cities. Then built troops in preparation for map making and getting off the island. All the troops and temples crippled my economy, and thus my research.

Got off the island at a very late date, and established a beachead on Roman soil. Lost it a few turns later, due in part to some bad RNG luck. Established a second beachhead on Roman soil, lost it due to my own stupidity.

Finally got established and beat up on the Romans with GS. I'm far behind others in tech. I knocked them down to a couple of small cities, then nearly gained tech parity with the world through my peace treaty with Rome. Enter MA at 800 AD!!!

I'm way behind in this game and stand a very good chance to lose at Regent level, yikes.

 

[Kulko]

4000BC
Ok thsi one I play for real, so lets think what i want first.I think Con/Dom is the normal wy to go and I stay with that aiming for comparing my game to other people.

I also played a few testgames and there seems to be a 50% chance that an early 2 archer rush nets a succesfull attack. On the other hand in one of 5 games I was on a island looking mightily stupid. In the other two games I conquered at least one worker or settler with them, so lets give it a try especially with all that production around.

I dont think there is anyone northwards, so i leave that alone for the beginning and move my worker SW. The BG looks tempting, but the isthmuss is nice too and I want a fast build. So I settle in place and live from the game. Hmm doesnt look to smart as another BG comes into view just outside my range.

Production is barracks and research is pottery.

3650 BC
Barracks build, Worker is mining the norther BG by now. First Archer build.

3500 BC
finishes just in time for the growth, starts working on road.

3450 BC
Archer build looks to the south.

3400 BC
Pottery founded.

3300 BC
ARRGLL ainwood really placed us in the middle of nowhere. switch second archer for Settler and start cranking up the economy.

2420 BC
made two misclicks, one stopping a well timed forest chop. Is there any easy way to find out how long a worker still has to toil? Well First settler is finally there, decide on RCP 4Mostly because that leaves the BGs open to be used.

2390 BC
Found Mohacs to the NW .

1870 BC
Lugdunum founded on the Hill 3 to the south.

1650 BC
Camolodunum founded on Eastern cape. Room for one more city in the south and may one rank 6 city on north cape. I see the light, e.g. the next coast Just need a ship or a good simmer to get there. Mohacs almost riots at teh sugeestion of swimming a mere 20 miles.

1375 BC
Richborough (?) founded on Northcap

1225 BC
Verulanium founded in the middle of the southrn coast. Now the long wait for Mapmaking starts.

1000 BC

6 cities
14 Pop
5 Warrior
2 Archer
6 Worker
9 turns until MM
32 Gold
QSC 1673

725 BC
finally MM, 1 prebuild galley, 2 prebuild Harbours ready.

690 BC
landing in the middle of a sea of red.

670 BC
so rome it is. Surprise! Surprise! lets find out how backward we are. Horrible, and the prices for bying things are gigantic too. Maybe my ships need to find some other people first.

650 BC
scandinavia sells BW and IW. Something went wrong with the map planing, there is Iron on our little rock. I start Upgarding and building Swordsman.

530 BC
Augustodorum founded near Furs.

230 BC
War with Rome. Plan is to steal the irons as soon as possible from Rome to avoid any more legionaires.

170 BC
Second trade orgy. have most 3rd tier Techs now. Only poly, construction and currency missing.

130 BC
GLH Build in entremont. Pyramids build in Rome (thank you so much)

230 AD
Finally Rome fell in the third attemp to an Army of 8 GS. Last turn I also traded myself into the MA so lets call it a night. Doesn't look like an early victory at all. Probably should have gone after some other poor guys first. But now their Iron is gone and teh rest sould be easy. No MGL means my second core has to wait for a while.

As usual after starting the War I got caught up in the game and forgot the Log and unfortunately also the careful play. So I twice got a city in revolt and also overlooked the single roman galley which cost me my fur city. Afterwards I lost 2 veteran galleys while trying to kill the roman landing force on the sea. That cost me another city, which was immediately captured back. But also this was a serious dent in my shipping lines, costing me 5 turns without reinforcements on the mainland, which hurt my second attempt on Rome. When I finally got my new force of GS over the channel, the rest the caesarians where history pretty soon.

In general I must say, the idea to start a war with rome immediately was probably a fault. I did so, to remove his access to iron, which worked out quite well, as he had only 3 Legionaires, two of which I caught in the open. But the third one in Rome stalled my attack for over 20 turns. And I also got caught in a horrible early GA, which was basically wasted on reinforcements for the war. Instead I should have used the large holes on the western continent to settle a complete second core there before starting the war later against the Vikings and tackle the romans, when there UU was obsolete. I think I will definitely play this game a second time to improve my style in this area, and get a better idea, of how this will go.


PS: City Placement looks exactly like Pius, just fewer people due to the rong start. I will never trust in Niceties from the GOTM staff again.

 

[Redbad]

predator, conquest

Good job, Crakie. Your game is a lot like mine, but you're one turn faster

city placement on the island is the same as Più's, only didn't I found a city at the place of Richborough.

-1000 4 settlers, 7 workers, 3 warriors, 6 archers, 5 cities, 1 palace, 2 barracks, 3 granaries
CB, WC, potts, alpha, writing

-900 mapmaking

-690 through trade and swindle we get many techs: myst, wheel, hbr, masonry, bronze and iron
dow Rome

-230 FP founded in Rome
10 Rome defeated, dow Egypt, we're a monarchy
230 Egypt defeated, dow Babylon
390 Babylon defeated, dow Scandinavia, they have great wall
580 Scandinavia defeated, dow Iroqouis, they get a golden age
770 Iroqouis defeated, Jason 9738

Unfortunately Iroqouis had Pyramids, so I think my Jason will not be very competitive
we never entered the MA

 

[Più Freddo]

I get another leader that builds me an army (stupid, as with my limited tech knowledge I will never be able to move that thing off the egyptian island).

Forming an Army may not have been the stupid part, but rather filling it with more than one Gallic Swordsman when not on the Continent.

Next time, put just one unit in the Army, win an easy battle (e.g. red-lined Spearman) and go ahead and build the Heroic Epic. Move the one-unit Army in a Galley to the Continent and there fill it up with two additional units.

 

[Più Freddo]

Is there any easy way to find out how long a worker still has to toil?

Click once on the Worker and you get a pop-up which tells you how many turns are left. There choose the option to let the Worker work in peace.

Don't forget that improvements count towards the inter-turn when they finish: when the pop-up says one turn left you can already move a citizen onto the tile and although it is not shown in that turn, the expected benefits are actually recorded in the inter-turn as can be observed the turn after.

 

[Crakie]

Good job, Crakie. Your game is a lot like mine, but you're one turn faster

Thanks, but I am ashamed to say I did the conquests variant. Not intentionally really, but upon realizing I downloaded the wrong save (I wanted predator as well) I could not be bothered going back to get the right one. As a handicap I did exclusively use honorable tactics, as in DoW only when my units were still outside AI borders and respecting 20 turn deals (no fake peace deals in other words). It seemed the right thing to do at regent

Your Jason score is also alot better, I think you had more (or happier) population going for ya. This is where the conquests variant may have bitten me in the behind, since many Roman and Egyptian cities were autorazed because I could get to them so early and I never bothered rebuilding them.

 

[ionimplant]

open, ptw, 20k

again i didn't build pyramid but almost everything else. regent AI wasn't that keen in building wonders. however the hanging garden was lost due to a cascade.

i was having very good luck attacking Rome. with only two Gallic Swordsmen, i started my war against Rome and didn't lose a single one until i conquered 2 cities. despite a relatively low production (with Entroment devoted to culture), the low casualty helped me push the war quite far. but wasn't able to take Rome and had to sue for peace finally. however a little rest during the 20 turns help me recuperate and the new attack finally sent Rome to a small island.

this level is quite friendly to 20K, but the map isn't at all. with all those wonders built on my home continents, which contains only 4 cities, i feel all the wonders have been wasted. in this aspect, i'm lucky that Iraquois built the pyramid.

 

[Redbad]

Thanks, but I am ashamed to say I did the conquests variant.

I'm sorry to hear that. I don't think the predator handicaps are very decisive, but the conquest-benefits make the games not very comparable. With conquests one can leave the island considerable sooner (having alpha) and one can build up to 25% more GS for the same amount of shields.

Your Jason score is also alot better, I think you had more (or happier) population going for ya.

I'm afraid the Jason isn't comparable either, as conquest gets 15% reductions.

 

[Wotan]

First impressions
Small map, 5 adversaries and 4 of them have their UU's in AA. Will go for either domination or conquest depending on the situation later in the game. A lot of one tile islands and conquest might be a no-no.

I settle in place and start building a warrior. Researching Pottery at 100%.

First builds
Warrior followed by a Barracks, 2 Archers and a Settler. Mohacs founded in 2750BC. Builds in Entremont continued with a cycle of 2 Archers and a Settler until the end of the QSC period. 5 Location at 1000BC with 3 Workers active and 13 Archers. Archers ready for a landing in Roman territory as soon as I have MM. Quickly discovered I was on a small island with no access to fresh water, so building Archers for aggressive actions without a pre-republic GA was my plan.

Meeting the neighbours
Put a Warrior on the southern peninsula hoping for a neighbour's scout to show up. Finally paid off 1575BC when a Roman showed up. A few turns later I was in contact with Iroquois and Vikings through Roman trade. Met Egypt in 510BC and map trading that turn gave info on where Babylon was located. Finally "knew" them in 490BC.

Tech advances
Severely hampered by the startup conditions of not having any room to expand and no fresh water. Did not feel like a regent game at all. Late to MM also restrained my ability to expand.
Potter reserched 3350BC
Alphabet researched 2270BC
Writing researched 1550BC
The Wheel (Romans) 1525BC
Masonry (Vikings) 1450BC
MM researched 925BC
Philosophy researched 710BC
BW (Iro/Vikings) 710BC
HBR (Iro/Vikings) 710BC
Maths (Iro/Vikings) 710BC
IW (Iro/Vikings) 710BC
Myst (Iro/Vikings) 710BC
CoL researched 490BC
Currency (Iroquois) 490BC
Poly (?) 490BC
Construction (Vikings) 330BC
Enter MA.

Cry havoc and let the dogs of war
About 10 Archers in position to attack Rome in 750BC. First location, size 1, destroyed in 730BC. Rome falls in 610BC and I accept a peace offer with Neapolis, Hispalis and Pisae as "reparations". Re-declared war in 570BC and Veii falls in 550BC. New Peace in 490BC for Pompeii. 3rd Roman war started in 350BC and Cumae falls in 330BC. Ravenna is the final location they have but the fate of Ravenna is for another thread as I enter MA this turn.

Summary
Slow start. Archers only so as to allow GA during Republic, right or wrong? Hope for an AI to get me Republic so I only research it at 40 turns. Will that prove to be a good call? Have stopped producing Archers at this point and prepare for a switch to GS. Not a single GL, even with loads of Elite attacks. Built the GLH only to discover I was not helped by it.

 

[Marshy]

Decided to go for a 20k cultural victory. Built the GL and if I had built lots of warriors I could have upgraded to the UU with all the cash the GL freed up. I've never played the Celts before and missed this trick. Stuck now with 8 or 9 cities that cannot produce enough UU's to really have a go at beating down the other civs. My 20k city hasn't got the production for an early 20k victory so it's looking like a late 20k victory or a long and very slow domination victory. Hmmm!!

 

[ionimplant]

Decided to go for a 20k cultural victory. Built the GL and if I had built lots of warriors I could have upgraded to the UU with all the cash the GL freed up.

i've learned through my past failure that to get a good date, you shouldn't really slow your research down, especially on regent level where AI won't be too helpful...

 

[coole shaman]

Diplomatic

Build warriors and archers.
Going to Rome and destroy in 70 bc.
I have two great leaders 1 going to a army witch gallic swordsman.
To the other make I a forbidden palace in Rome.
Build fast more settlers.
And going to the next land and build 1 city witch a temple
the city may not run over with culture.
Make a way to a iron.
I have now 4 iron .
And make a way to a incense.

going to medieval age

 

[coole shaman]

Ainwood

you say:
GOTM 52 First Spoiler

mare it is gotm 53

 

[Più Freddo]

Archers only so as to allow GA during Republic, right or wrong?

Difficult to say before your Middle Ages spoiler. You have done away with the Romans faster than most. The sheer amount of Bonus Grassland speaks for a Golden Age under Republican rule. That's seven or eight shields per turn times twenty, about three Gallic Swordsmen extra.

Hope for an AI to get me Republic so I only research it at 40 turns. Will that prove to be a good call?

Waiting long for Republic and only then releasing the Gallic Swordsmen could mean losing the above advantages over other strategies.

 

[Wotan]

Difficult to say before your Middle Ages spoiler. You have done away with the Romans faster than most. The sheer amount of Bonus Grassland speaks for a Golden Age under Republican rule. That's seven or eight shields per turn times twenty, about three Gallic Swordsmen extra.

Three wars on Rome was nice. I gained most of Roman territory through peace treaties. Only attacked one or two locations during each war.

Waiting long for Republic and only then releasing the Gallic Swordsmen could mean losing the above advantages over other strategies.

Well, let's see what happened in the next spoiler thread. It was all a question of AI help with Republic or not. If they researched Republic soon after I entered the MA the plan might work. If I had to wait for 40 turns to get Republic it would be quite a different story.