Oregano
Freelance illustrator
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2005
- Messages
- 95
Hi all,
Post whopping #2, here. I'm an artist, not a programmer, and so I thought I'd toss out some ideas and thoughts that I've had recently and see what the community thought about them.
But first, just so you know I'm not coming out of the blue, I've been playing Civ since version 1, *and* I actually own a board game by the same name that was published sometime around the late 80's. Long before Civilization ever made it to the computer. I've been gaming for a while...
I'm currently reading a book entitled "Guns, Germs, and Steel - the Fates of Human Societies" written by Jared Diamond. If you are interested in prehistory, or where we came from at all, I highly recomend this book. It is very much like reading a game of Civilization.
That brings me to the point of this post. The book, being extremely thorough, covers tons of ground on how we have gotten to where are today, and why societies didn't develop universally at the same rate throughout the world.
One of the key factors that I noticed that Mr. Diamond brings up and emphasises time and again is the importance of technological development in societies, and how seemingly random this was, and how the technology, once developed, spread from one group to another (much the way the religions do in Civ 4 currently - imagine the tech tree using the same process, complete with the tech being founded someplace and havine to *spread* to other areas - I admit, I start to drool at the idea...
)
Further, and this is important, is that in game, you have access to a whole slew of technologies right from the start of the game, regardless of where you are located (for instance, I can research sailing even if I'm smack dab in the middle of a desert with no rivers, lakes or oasis anywhere to be seen). Also, once a tech has been researched, you then gain access to the resource for building any units that technology may grant you.
This is historically inside out and backwards.
Historically, advances were made *because* of the availability of resources. We didn't figure out how to farm, then discover wheat, flax, olives or whatever. We noticed that wheat and flax were easy to control and grew quickly, provided a somewhat stable food source when hunting was lean and over a long period of time domesticated them, and started propagating them to our purpose. Domesticating animals followed essentially the same arc.
Further, we have guns because the chinese figured out how to utilize salt peter, which was then used in various explosive devices, and further developed by the Europeans for use in war. We had salt peter first, then gun powder, then guns, then cannon, and so on.
What I would love to see is this:
Use the religions as a model for the spread of technological advances in the game, including founding cities. Scientists, engineers, etc. would work exactly like the holy men in game - allowing directed spread of technology. Once a tech has been developed, that's it. It's developed (with the exception of certain premitive techs, like agriculture for example, which developed independently in a handful of places in the world). This places resources right where they should be - ABSOLUTELY vital. If you don't have the resource to develop something, then you can't research it. You *have* to trade for it, or hope that it spreads to your civilization at some point. For example, if you're in the desert, you can't develop sailling unless that tech is adjacent to a sea or ocean. Secrecy could be used to keep modern techs from spreading (for a while) to allow strategic control over developements.
Have players start with *no* technologies, but allow them to develop techs based on what is available locally. (grasses allow agriculture, which can spread through workers, stone allows construction which can be spread through engineers/workers, etc).
Techs would also spread on their own, just like the religions do in game.
The same could happen with the civics, which in fact represent more of the cultures than the color of the terrority you happen to be in.
(The way the religions spread in game I'm kind stunned that no one thought to take this further. It's such an ingenious concept - it could even be used for plagues).
Anyway, those are my ideas for the time being. I'd love to see someone take and run with this. You'd have my eternal gratitude, and I'd be willing to play test it, and offer insight and whatever a programming impaired person might be able to offer
In the mean time, I *highly* suggest that everyone reads "Guns, Germs, and Steel". It is a dense book, having almost 500 pages, but is totally worth it.
Cheers,
~Oreg.
Post whopping #2, here. I'm an artist, not a programmer, and so I thought I'd toss out some ideas and thoughts that I've had recently and see what the community thought about them.
But first, just so you know I'm not coming out of the blue, I've been playing Civ since version 1, *and* I actually own a board game by the same name that was published sometime around the late 80's. Long before Civilization ever made it to the computer. I've been gaming for a while...
I'm currently reading a book entitled "Guns, Germs, and Steel - the Fates of Human Societies" written by Jared Diamond. If you are interested in prehistory, or where we came from at all, I highly recomend this book. It is very much like reading a game of Civilization.
That brings me to the point of this post. The book, being extremely thorough, covers tons of ground on how we have gotten to where are today, and why societies didn't develop universally at the same rate throughout the world.
One of the key factors that I noticed that Mr. Diamond brings up and emphasises time and again is the importance of technological development in societies, and how seemingly random this was, and how the technology, once developed, spread from one group to another (much the way the religions do in Civ 4 currently - imagine the tech tree using the same process, complete with the tech being founded someplace and havine to *spread* to other areas - I admit, I start to drool at the idea...
)Further, and this is important, is that in game, you have access to a whole slew of technologies right from the start of the game, regardless of where you are located (for instance, I can research sailing even if I'm smack dab in the middle of a desert with no rivers, lakes or oasis anywhere to be seen). Also, once a tech has been researched, you then gain access to the resource for building any units that technology may grant you.
This is historically inside out and backwards.
Historically, advances were made *because* of the availability of resources. We didn't figure out how to farm, then discover wheat, flax, olives or whatever. We noticed that wheat and flax were easy to control and grew quickly, provided a somewhat stable food source when hunting was lean and over a long period of time domesticated them, and started propagating them to our purpose. Domesticating animals followed essentially the same arc.
Further, we have guns because the chinese figured out how to utilize salt peter, which was then used in various explosive devices, and further developed by the Europeans for use in war. We had salt peter first, then gun powder, then guns, then cannon, and so on.
What I would love to see is this:
Use the religions as a model for the spread of technological advances in the game, including founding cities. Scientists, engineers, etc. would work exactly like the holy men in game - allowing directed spread of technology. Once a tech has been developed, that's it. It's developed (with the exception of certain premitive techs, like agriculture for example, which developed independently in a handful of places in the world). This places resources right where they should be - ABSOLUTELY vital. If you don't have the resource to develop something, then you can't research it. You *have* to trade for it, or hope that it spreads to your civilization at some point. For example, if you're in the desert, you can't develop sailling unless that tech is adjacent to a sea or ocean. Secrecy could be used to keep modern techs from spreading (for a while) to allow strategic control over developements.
Have players start with *no* technologies, but allow them to develop techs based on what is available locally. (grasses allow agriculture, which can spread through workers, stone allows construction which can be spread through engineers/workers, etc).
Techs would also spread on their own, just like the religions do in game.
The same could happen with the civics, which in fact represent more of the cultures than the color of the terrority you happen to be in.
(The way the religions spread in game I'm kind stunned that no one thought to take this further. It's such an ingenious concept - it could even be used for plagues).
Anyway, those are my ideas for the time being. I'd love to see someone take and run with this. You'd have my eternal gratitude, and I'd be willing to play test it, and offer insight and whatever a programming impaired person might be able to offer
In the mean time, I *highly* suggest that everyone reads "Guns, Germs, and Steel". It is a dense book, having almost 500 pages, but is totally worth it. Cheers,
~Oreg.
