Help me be a bully

[Matutin]

Stupid question, but as a rather peaceful newbie-ish player, I've never used the aggressive "authority-bully-route".
How exactly does bullying work? Is there a limit to bullying, or can I farm my neighboring CS?

TL;DR: I need a how-to or does and don'ts

 

[tu_79]

Use high strength units. Horses better than archers. Have many. Don't worry about maintenance yet. Move one or two units close to one of those city states, when the city banner turns orange you can bully.
There's a cooldown, so try bullying three to four states early game while moving around your units.
Avoid befriending them, I think it prevents bullying.

 

[Matutin]

So I don't need to move my whole army to the CS's borders? And what does bullying actually yield me? Gold? Science? Culture? More units?
Does bullying not conflict with worker-stealing? As in, for the one I have to be at peace, for the other at war?

 

[tu_79]

So I don't need to move my whole army to the CS's borders? And what does bullying actually yield me? Gold? Science? Culture? More units?
Does bullying not conflict with worker-stealing? As in, for the one I have to be at peace, for the other at war?

They only need to fear you. You may declare war on them and reduce their units so your army is bigger than theirs. If a neighbour has a stronger army and he can bully the states, he may bully them before you, and they may not fear your army enough.

 

[neo_arcadia]

You don't need to, just bring sufficient number of your units. Bullying means demand for tribute, either low or heavy tribute. Demanding tribute can only be done when you are not in the war with target city states. By the way, bullying is city state quest, asking you to demand tribute from another specific city state. Yields vary from city states quest because I'm sure that bullying that gives you yield only comes from its city states rival. By asking for tribute you can have gold for low tribute or these yields from heavy tribute: food (maritime), culture (cultural), faith (religious), science (military) or production (mercantile). Consequence of demanding tribute is losing diplomatic points and likelihood that the city states you demands from will give quest to another civilizations to declare war on you.

 

[Galbias]

Stupid question, but as a rather peaceful newbie-ish player, I've never used the aggressive "authority-bully-route".
How exactly does bullying work? Is there a limit to bullying, or can I farm my neighboring CS?

TL;DR: I need a how-to or does and don'ts

The repercussions are mostly diplomatic. Obviously you lose influence and usually quests with the CS in question, but more importantly you also get a diplomatic penalty with Civs that have pledged to protect the CS in question, and (if I'm remembering correctly) a choice to promise not to do it again or a bigger penalty with a risk of war. It's easiest to bully early game, when not many pledges are up, later on almost all CS-es tend to have at least one pledge in my experience. Bullied city-states will also issue quests to give them a pledge, or denounce their bully.

 

[Democ]

I think the modifier called " military presence near the city states " count for 10 tiles around the city states , so you can prepare some roads that will allow you army to move in faster for the " dance " of tributing.
If there are two city states that are 15 or 20 tiles apart you can keep your military almost static in the middle of those.

The early tributing before turn 100 or so ( early classical) , i'd call it lucky , if you have a warrior upgrade to spearman , or if the city states gets its first units destroyed a few time , or if the city state is on flatland and no hills , or if the city states is not hostile nor militaristic , or again if the city states is not protected by anyone those are stuff that will allow for easier tributing early.

Later my personnal opinion is that it is not worth to make an army just for tributing city states, usually the AI have quite good armies so you will need to have yourself a big one in order to bully , it doesn't require much more investment to have a competitive army against the AI than just to tribute you so migh as well wage a few war with your neighbours , you can tribute empire too ^^.

Don't bully a city state that is under someone's protection if you are not ready to fight this guy, as they will ask you to stop, and it can causes a war if you reply them to take care of their business. And if you always lies to them telling you'll stop and you don't , they will denouce you and tell the world about your perfidious actions.

Do : try to bully a city states before you conquer it , it's not like you will have a bigger diplomatic penalty because you tributed them before killing them it's just free bonus.

If you plan to keep friends while still attempting at being a bully , there is a WC resolution that lowers the penalty from being aggressive towards city states.

If player 1 and 2 are at war with player 3 , I am pretty sure you can tribute the city that are protected by or allied with player 3 without consequences from player 1 and 2 and vice versa, so you might pay some AI to declare war on statecraft AI , and then get your money back with benefits allowing you to be more proactive than just waiting opportunities.

There is a time limit to prevent you from tributing the same city every turn, it is shown as a red negative modifier " -9999 you asked a tribute (very) recently " or something like that when you try to see if your green modifier showing your overall military and your close-to-the-city military are enough to balance the modifiers that come from city states resiliance, its allies , protection ect This is a bit like the system that prevent the mongol to annex all the city state in the same turn for example.


Later in the game there is " Exploitation " in the Imperialism tree that boost your ability to tribute and interact with city states and the strongest policy for that purpose would be "Tyranny" , a 3rd level tenet of autocracy that let you tribute your own allied city states further increasing your influence but nothing in Fealty or Artistery , which leads to the last point I have in mind , DON'T think you can't take statecraft while being a bully.

good luck picking on the weak and bringing injustice to the world , it's fun

 

[Matutin]

Thanks for all your advice!
I just tried it in a new game as Caesar, but was not able to bully a single time. I had to pause the session at turn 80ish, and at the moment, my military force consists of three horsemen and four spearmen. At no point was I able to demand even the slightest tribute. The CS all have some spearmen themselves, accompanied by some archers.
According to your posts, the optimal "sub turn 100 window" is closing, what shall I do now? Legions are around the corner, but I won't be able to mass produce them withing the next 20 turns...

 

[Magean]

Thanks for all your advice!
I just tried it in a new game as Caesar, but was not able to bully a single time. I had to pause the session at turn 80ish, and at the moment, my military force consists of three horsemen and four spearmen. At no point was I able to demand even the slightest tribute. The CS all have some spearmen themselves, accompanied by some archers.
According to your posts, the optimal "sub turn 100 window" is closing, what shall I do now? Legions are around the corner, but I won't be able to mass produce them withing the next 20 turns...

I think Democ meant it the other way around: before turn 100, it's difficult to be in a position to demand tribute, at least in higher difficulties. Later on, you should be catching up as compared to AIs in terms of raw military power. You should also vastly overwhelm a single CS military, which isn't the case in the early game.

 

[Matutin]

Ah, just read it again. I think I misunderstood his post.
I guess I'll continue tomorrow, build some legions and see where this leeds me.
Either way, I'll have a good use for all the units - Kasimir needs his ass kicked, and I'm pretty sure my friendship with Hiawatha won't last eternally

 

[Democ]

I think Democ meant it the other way around: before turn 100, it's difficult to be in a position to demand tribute, at least in higher difficulties. Later on, you should be catching up as compared to AIs in terms of raw military power. You should also vastly overwhelm a single CS military, which isn't the case in the early game

yes before turn 100 in normal speed small map it's my mental guildeline, if you have some luck you can hope for some tribute before turn 100 , but usually you want to build settler worker monuments ect before you build units , you can steal workers from city state to waste their early production towards another worker, and spend your production in units earlier while they won't