Help with Byz OCC
- Thread starter Delphi456
- Start date
What sort of victory do you want here? I'd suggest diplomatic for this game, since you only have three early wonders. Constantinople has three extra food that won't do anything for you for thousands of years. On this turn here you can use those two sea squares for a little more commerce. Mine those hills and that mountain. Then chop on of the forests and mine that square, use both hills and the mountain and that should balance it out so that you have no extra food... but you have the most amount of shields you can have. On this turn you can make peace with the Inca for Currency or The Republic. If you give them both, you can get some 25+ gpt and their lump sum... that's well worth it really. May as well pick up Monarchy also and try for the Hanging Gardens, I'd say.
When you learn construction in a few turns you can use "what's the big picture" to gift Greece up the middle ages before you learn it and try to use The Republic/Monarchy to get their free tech and draw something else as your free tech. I'd suggest staying out of wars. You might want to consider rights of passage or gifting the AIs money occasionally to help keep their attitudes in check. Beeline to Astronomy (with really good luck, Greece will get you Monotheism, and you'll get Theology as your free tech... but that's really improbable actually) in the middle ages, then to Free Aristry, and lastly to Theory of Gravity. Pick up the corresponding wonders and you should do fairly well in the tech pace, granted that you stay alive. What did you set the aggression level at... did you consider it before you started playing?
For this turn, I'd go with another worker (Constantinople will grow back to size 12 in a single turn), and mine those hills so that you can get your post-GA shield output up. Pre-build the university, Cope's, Shake's, and Newton's, or at least try to do so. Keep an eye on the AIs tech pace. You don't have contact with Cleo, but I wouldn't sweat it in this one myself.
When you learn construction in a few turns you can use "what's the big picture" to gift Greece up the middle ages before you learn it and try to use The Republic/Monarchy to get their free tech and draw something else as your free tech. I'd suggest staying out of wars. You might want to consider rights of passage or gifting the AIs money occasionally to help keep their attitudes in check. Beeline to Astronomy (with really good luck, Greece will get you Monotheism, and you'll get Theology as your free tech... but that's really improbable actually) in the middle ages, then to Free Aristry, and lastly to Theory of Gravity. Pick up the corresponding wonders and you should do fairly well in the tech pace, granted that you stay alive. What did you set the aggression level at... did you consider it before you started playing?
For this turn, I'd go with another worker (Constantinople will grow back to size 12 in a single turn), and mine those hills so that you can get your post-GA shield output up. Pre-build the university, Cope's, Shake's, and Newton's, or at least try to do so. Keep an eye on the AIs tech pace. You don't have contact with Cleo, but I wouldn't sweat it in this one myself.
Bummer.
The best way to avoid nearby enemies in an OCC is to:
1. Not get into wars.
2. On the rare occasions when you DO get into wars, with non-neighbors, ally your neighbor in against them.
An embassy and an alliance with Shaka against one or both of your enemies might have done wonders in terms of keeping him from killing you. Then again, he didn't know your enemies; I think Shaka was just not the best neighbor you could have.
Also, one technique which I have found helpful in my OCC games is to get the Great Library a lot sooner than you did in this one (I assume you kicked off the GA with the Mausoleum). As soon as the Mausoleum kicked things off, the GLib was your best friend, both for culture (to preserve the 20k win) and to save up a lot of cash. You can usually turn off research until the AI gets at least the first-tier techs for you; in the past I've been waiting for Theology, then researching Printing Press while the AI got Education, and then trying hard for Cops and then Shakespeare's. It may be better (probably not on Emperor though) to self-research Theology and get a bit more of a head-start on things.
The best way to avoid nearby enemies in an OCC is to:
1. Not get into wars.
2. On the rare occasions when you DO get into wars, with non-neighbors, ally your neighbor in against them.
An embassy and an alliance with Shaka against one or both of your enemies might have done wonders in terms of keeping him from killing you. Then again, he didn't know your enemies; I think Shaka was just not the best neighbor you could have.
Also, one technique which I have found helpful in my OCC games is to get the Great Library a lot sooner than you did in this one (I assume you kicked off the GA with the Mausoleum). As soon as the Mausoleum kicked things off, the GLib was your best friend, both for culture (to preserve the 20k win) and to save up a lot of cash. You can usually turn off research until the AI gets at least the first-tier techs for you; in the past I've been waiting for Theology, then researching Printing Press while the AI got Education, and then trying hard for Cops and then Shakespeare's. It may be better (probably not on Emperor though) to self-research Theology and get a bit more of a head-start on things.
I think you need to provide more detail to get helpful information here.
In your save I traded him Polytheism for Wines. This took him to cautious (and raised Theodora's score by making her citizens happier). I then established an embassy with him and this took him to polite. He did declare war soon after this... but on Scandinavia. I played out until I would get Cope's the next turn... how far did you go?
Check the F4 scren and notice all the happy leaderheads. Hence, I had no more wars after I got out of those silly false ones with the Maya and the Inca. I got their luxuries instead. I had Greece's extra iron also, but let it go at one point, since I didn't want to purchase it by cash. Maybe I should have down so. Check the F3 screen to see how I've traded for luxuries and such with the AIs. That helps keep their attitudes up, as I either give them gold (which they like) or outdated technology for those luxuries or resources as the case may be (which they like also). You might also want to consider pre-selecting your opponents next time, as well as your aggression level. Here's my save:
In your save I traded him Polytheism for Wines. This took him to cautious (and raised Theodora's score by making her citizens happier). I then established an embassy with him and this took him to polite. He did declare war soon after this... but on Scandinavia. I played out until I would get Cope's the next turn... how far did you go?
Check the F4 scren and notice all the happy leaderheads. Hence, I had no more wars after I got out of those silly false ones with the Maya and the Inca. I got their luxuries instead. I had Greece's extra iron also, but let it go at one point, since I didn't want to purchase it by cash. Maybe I should have down so. Check the F3 screen to see how I've traded for luxuries and such with the AIs. That helps keep their attitudes up, as I either give them gold (which they like) or outdated technology for those luxuries or resources as the case may be (which they like also). You might also want to consider pre-selecting your opponents next time, as well as your aggression level. Here's my save:
capnvonbaron
Democratia gladii
It can really depend on the game. Sometimes you'll just get an AI that wants you dead, polite or otherwise. But yes, I agree that keeping them happy is your best defense, and alliances are key. It helps if you can provide your own iron, but sometimes that can be a tall order.
A second suggestion I would make is selecting a map with 70% ocean, as resources/luxs/bonuses tend to be more clustered and you'll have a better chance at a landing a capital near some goodies.
I've done two successful OCCs, both ended up as 20K wins. They were vastly different experiences, despite similar map selection and difficulty level. I actually came close to being destroyed in a regent game, but a clever alliance with the Persians had him eliminate all the other civs on my continent, leaving only him (friendly to me because of all our deals). However, it was harrowing because I was in the middle of everything.
The other game, monarch difficulty, I was on the end of a long, stringy continent with only one civ sharing a border. They were benign towards me the whole game and through several alliances kept the bad ones at bay. I even had time in between a few of the wonders to pump out a bunch of knights (iron popped up on the hill underneith my capital, horses were on the fringe until my neighbor's culture expanded late-game and took it
) and went on an offensive to clear out a couple of junk cities on the north end of the continent that belonged to off-continent rivals.
So I guess to sum everything up, the best thing you can do for yourself is get a good start and keep a couple of really good friends. If the first civ you meet is already "annoyed" with you, its probably going to be a rough game. Also, without three AA wonders, I'd say forget a win before retirement. With proper management, its usually pretty easy to score the Colossus, Oracle, GLib, and Gardens with a coastal start. Once you hit the MA, I'd say republic is the best bet, since monarchy will have such a low unit support for only one city. I think I managed to get the sistine chapel and shake's in both games, Bach's in the monarchy one. Leo's and Sun Tzu's are really useless for OCCs, IMO. I think in both games I lost Copernicus to wonder cascades and fell hoplessly behind in techs to get anything after that
Funniest thing; I just tried a 20K with the Aztecs, ended up with 7 great wonders and four small wonders all in Tenochtitlan, and finished in the exact same year as my monarch OCC with the Egyptians (with only six gws and no sws)
The major difference was the OCC only took about 6 hours of my time, the Aztec game probably 13 or 14 hours.
A second suggestion I would make is selecting a map with 70% ocean, as resources/luxs/bonuses tend to be more clustered and you'll have a better chance at a landing a capital near some goodies.
I've done two successful OCCs, both ended up as 20K wins. They were vastly different experiences, despite similar map selection and difficulty level. I actually came close to being destroyed in a regent game, but a clever alliance with the Persians had him eliminate all the other civs on my continent, leaving only him (friendly to me because of all our deals). However, it was harrowing because I was in the middle of everything.
The other game, monarch difficulty, I was on the end of a long, stringy continent with only one civ sharing a border. They were benign towards me the whole game and through several alliances kept the bad ones at bay. I even had time in between a few of the wonders to pump out a bunch of knights (iron popped up on the hill underneith my capital, horses were on the fringe until my neighbor's culture expanded late-game and took it
) and went on an offensive to clear out a couple of junk cities on the north end of the continent that belonged to off-continent rivals.So I guess to sum everything up, the best thing you can do for yourself is get a good start and keep a couple of really good friends. If the first civ you meet is already "annoyed" with you, its probably going to be a rough game. Also, without three AA wonders, I'd say forget a win before retirement. With proper management, its usually pretty easy to score the Colossus, Oracle, GLib, and Gardens with a coastal start. Once you hit the MA, I'd say republic is the best bet, since monarchy will have such a low unit support for only one city. I think I managed to get the sistine chapel and shake's in both games, Bach's in the monarchy one. Leo's and Sun Tzu's are really useless for OCCs, IMO. I think in both games I lost Copernicus to wonder cascades and fell hoplessly behind in techs to get anything after that
Funniest thing; I just tried a 20K with the Aztecs, ended up with 7 great wonders and four small wonders all in Tenochtitlan, and finished in the exact same year as my monarch OCC with the Egyptians (with only six gws and no sws)
The major difference was the OCC only took about 6 hours of my time, the Aztec game probably 13 or 14 hours.
You may already know all of this Delphi456, and I apologize if I'm giving you information that you already know. I don't know who all is in your game, but here's a hypothetical to demonstrate the mechanics: When you finish the last tech of the AA, you'll get the "New Age" popup. Go to the big picture. Immediately go to the foreign advisor. Go see Alex. Gift or sell Greece the techs to get it out of the AA. Say Greece draws Monotheism. When you exit the diplo screen, you'll go back to the foreign advisor.
Immediately go see Korea. Gift or sell Korea the techs to get it out of the AA. Say Korea draws Engineering. Exit diplo & it takes you back to the foreign advisor.
Go see the Persians. Gift or sell Persia the techs to get it out of the AA. Say Persia draws Feudalism. Exit diplo & it takes you back to the foreign advisor.
Go back and see Greece again. Buy Monotheism. Take Monotheism over to Korea and trade Mono + something to buy Engineering. Take Mono + Engineering over to Persia and buy Feudalism.
All of the above is done without exiting the foreign advisor screen. Now you're in the MA, have all 3 first-tier techs, but have not drawn your freebie. When you exit the foreign advisor screen, it will draw your freebie. You'll get a 2nd tier-tech.
And no, the fat cross is a fixed size. Once all of the tiles are worked, everyone else becomes a specialist.
Immediately go see Korea. Gift or sell Korea the techs to get it out of the AA. Say Korea draws Engineering. Exit diplo & it takes you back to the foreign advisor.
Go see the Persians. Gift or sell Persia the techs to get it out of the AA. Say Persia draws Feudalism. Exit diplo & it takes you back to the foreign advisor.
Go back and see Greece again. Buy Monotheism. Take Monotheism over to Korea and trade Mono + something to buy Engineering. Take Mono + Engineering over to Persia and buy Feudalism.
All of the above is done without exiting the foreign advisor screen. Now you're in the MA, have all 3 first-tier techs, but have not drawn your freebie. When you exit the foreign advisor screen, it will draw your freebie. You'll get a 2nd tier-tech.
And no, the fat cross is a fixed size. Once all of the tiles are worked, everyone else becomes a specialist.
It'll be a specialist. (Once you've gotten to Replaceable Parts, it could also be a civil engineer. That extra 2 shields per turn can come in handy. A policeman (with Communism) won't be.) With sufficient food, you can get quite a few specialists in place.
Delphi456 said:
Via the "what's the big picture" trick as Aabraxan elucidated yes. But, you don't need all three first level techs to draw Theology as your free tech. You only need Monotheism. This doesn't make such likely.
