How to use Great Persons

[Ninal]

My prefered playing style is peacefull-wide starting with progress and focussing on infrastructure. In my current game as Tradition Arabia I am getting more Great Persons than I am used to with progress. I started wondering about the most efficient way to use them. I am going to describe how I normally use them and I am curious to see if you guys have other experiences.

Great Scientist
I normally plant my scientists till after I get scientific revolution. In my current Arabia game I have 5 academies and will now start bulbing scientists.

Great Engineer
I normally use most of them to rush wonders. I have experimented with getting a manufactory now and maybe I will even get a second.

GWAM
I have no idea when it is the right time to start 'bulbing' these for golden ages, extra culture or tourism bombs. I normally just make great works till very late into the game but I am not sure if that is correct. Would love to hear some suggestions.

Great Merchants
I have only ever used these for the gold and "WLTKD" on empire. I just love growing my cities! I might be wrong not using the towns though...

Great Diplomat
Normally I used all of them to gain more city state allies. Now I have started making embassies. I'm still quite uncertain on how to make the correct call wether to go for the "flip" or the embassy...

Anyways would love to start a discussion on how to use your Great Persons efficiently...

 

[Stalker0]

GMs, for a tradition focus I think early towns are very good, but talking progress I think bulbing is the way to go.

GDs I almost always use embassies. I can always build Emissaries, but once the embassies are built that’s it.

 

[CppMaster]

I use GS the same way.
GE I use to rush wonders or I plant one early if there is no useful wonders to build, to boost further rushes.
GWAM I use the same.
GM I use to create towns and late game I bulb for gold and WLTKD.
I use first GD as diplomat, so I have more paper, but then I use all of them to create embassies. Then I use it as diplomat again when there are no embassies left to build.
GP I use only for founding and enchanting religion. Sometimes to convert a civ to my religion, but beside that I avoid them by spending faith on sth else. I never build Holy Sites.

 

[Stalker0]

I use first GD as diplomat, so I have more paper.

Just to clarify, you get paper no matter how you use the GD

 

[CppMaster]

Really? Then I would just create embassies whenever it's possible, except I really want to ally a CS.

 

[tu_79]

GWAM are interesting.

1. Discussing for tall
Writers give much culture, but playing as Tradition you don't really need more culture. Tourism gives you more reward at this point.
Artists give golden ages. Being in golden age is very good, especially if you have the enhancing buildings. If you played tall Artistry, you are probably enjoying nearly permanent golden ages, so the answer is easy: bulb an artist when you see that are not natural golden ages in the near future.
Musicians are actually easier. Have a few great works for the theming bonuses, expend the rest in tours against your biggest opponent had you go cultural victory.

2. Discussing for wide
Writers give much needed culture, which you may be lacking if you went Authority. Luckily, you can faith purchase writers. Use them whenever you culture lags behind.
Going wide, you have to expend more artists to keep the golden ages going, but their timing is hard since the previously expended artists increase golden age duration for the following ones.
Tourism victory is a no no going too wide, but there are still reasons to use musician tours: they grant happiness to your empire. You'll probably value happiness much more than a bit of culture and theming bonuses as a warmonger.

About GPTI (tile improvements), things get tricky. Saving engineers for much wanted wonders is really useful, but factories can make useless cities productive again, and each factory increases the power for next engineers, so if you don't have a contested wonder in your immediate future, it might be better to plant a factory. Early science rushes only make sense when you get an unique unit which you have a clear immediate use for it, but I would not plant more Academies than I can effectively work on (late game, city manager refuses to work on a few). Towns are great for removing poverty in one city, even if they can't make up for the not gained gold, but WLTKD in every city is something to consider when you have excedent happiness.

Citadels you know what to do with them. Keep one general in each front, expend the rest in citadels.

 

[CppMaster]

Writers give much needed culture, which you may be lacking if you went Authority. Luckily, you can faith purchase writers.

Nope, with Authority you can buy generals, not writers, unless you reform with proper belief.

Early science rushes only make sense when you get an unique unit which you have a clear immediate use for it, but I would not plant more Academies than I can effectively work on (late game, city manager refuses to work on a few).

Not a problem since you can lock tiles.

 

[Minh Le]

Well even playing tourism victory I find myself poping most GW in modern era. I have more than enough tourism from wonder, building and artifact while desperately need culture to unlock 2 lv3 tenet for the victory.

 

[TwoPodRay]

As far as engineers go, I will keep one on standby (maybe two if I’m about to rush more than 1 wonder) to just sit and wait until he’s needed, but otherwise I plant any extra. With enough Manufacturies you won’t have as much need for engineers to rush wonders since you have so much production.

On artists, I normally only bulb them early to start or continue golden ages (using any extra to create works). But as said above, you get to a point where your golden ages are permanent, especially once you get to stadiums and get all the instant GAP yields. If you are going wide, you’ll probably have access to more artifacts, reducing the need for artists to make great works.

Writers I’ll try to make great works as long as possible for theming bonuses, or use them to fight off folks pushing for CVs, though since culture snowballs, I should probably math out whether it is useful to use more of them early to speed up my culture snowball.

I have become obsessed with the mini game of perfectly spaced cities to fit optimal number of villages and towns on roads between so I normally use my merchants for towns. If I am at war with lots of folks and can’t get access to luxuries that they have that my cities are asking for, I’ll use the GM as a WLTKD reset.

Admirals I normally always just go on a voyage. I tend to always be able to win Treasure Fleet do healing outside of friendly territory covers me on healing and don’t need the admirals for that.

I actually like making Holy Sites if going for strong culture or Tourism. They have pretty solid yields and make your hotels much more potent. Any GPs I get after enhancing go to Holy Sites unless I’m stuck at just a few percent from reforming and don’t have an easy way to get more followers.

Diplomats are always Embassies until there are no more embassies available to plant, but I always play for late game in the WC and highly value controlling it even if not doing for diplo victory.

Musicians I just make GW until late game, normally I don’t need the extra tourism if I’m sticking to my game plan.

Generals are straightforward. Though when planting citadels I prioritize stealing resources with them more than using in the best defensive spots. I also steal tiles from CS that have other Civs embassies so i can plant my own and steal the vote.

Scientists are normally always academies until late. If I’m going science victory and have a ton of acedmies, I can skyrocket through the last few techs.

When picking free Great people, it depends on the situation at hand. GD if it’s an early one or I need to grab some votes, GP if I can get a free enhance early, GW if it’s later in the game and I’m trying to rush through policies. Almost anything outside of that I pick Admirals and go on voyages. The extra happiness and ability to sell extra lux for gold is pretty awesome.

EDIT: I also try to spread out my holy sites, towns, and academies to outer cities to help address sources of unhappiness. Usually my capital has better infrastructure and doesn’t need GPTIs to fix unhappiness. I normally pile up all my Manufacturies in the capital though, even if not Tradition to make sure it can build everything that will be needed to be built there.

 

[tu_79]

Well even playing tourism victory I find myself poping most GW in modern era. I have more than enough tourism from wonder, building and artifact while desperately need culture to unlock 2 lv3 tenet for the victory.

Oh, I've yet to play a cultural game with the latest requirements. Probably you are right.

 

[Minh Le]

EDIT: I also try to spread out my holy sites, towns, and academies to outer cities to help address sources of unhappiness. Usually my capital has better infrastructure and doesn’t need GPTIs to fix unhappiness. I normally pile up all my Manufacturies in the capital though, even if not Tradition to make sure it can build everything that will be needed to be built there.

I dont think its a good idea to spread out holy sites because of % culture to tourism.

 

[TwoPodRay]

I dont think its a good idea to spread out holy sites because of % culture to tourism.

Fair point, though I had been using Holy Sites as a culture tile upgrade and not so much as a tourism spot. Though my hotels would be stronger if I stacked Holy Sites in only a few cities.

 

[Galbias]

In most cases, I'll use the long-term choice (GPTI/GW) for most of the game and then switch to the instant choice somewhere between Industrial and early Atomic, with exceptions if I need the instant yield right now for whatever reason.

Engineers used to be better for rush production always but now I think there's a reasonable balance between that and Manufactory.

Don't forget that Concert Tour also gives you a bit of Happiness, and Generals can be used to steal Embassies so you can plant your own.

 

[chicorbeef]

I'll wait until Research Labs until I start bulbing my Scientists as my default. I used to do it after Scientific Revolution but I think you get better results if you hoard your GSes until the last minute and bulb them as late as possible. Exceptions can be made however, like if I need to get a tight wonder or need to rush to Tanks etc.

That's because techs are cheaper when other civs have researched them (moreso if Scholars in Residence), you gain more Science from TRs and can steal more techs by being just a little behind.

And each Academy buffs the potency of the bulb both directly and indirectly.

 

[Torvald]

... and Generals can be used to steal Embassies so you can plant your own.

I've recently returned to playing Civ-5 Vox Populi after a 3-year break, so am relearning many things. Please help me understand how Generals can be used to steal Embassies. Thanks in advance.

 

[tu_79]

I've recently returned to playing Civ-5 Vox Populi after a 3-year break, so am relearning many things. Please help me understand how Generals can be used to steal Embassies. Thanks in advance.

A citadel steals all adjacent tiles. Valid places for citadels are :
1. Inside your territory.
2. Adjacent to your territory if the tile is neutral.

With Autocracy, it's even better, since citadels steal 2 rings.

Edit. Citadel is the tile improvement from a great general. Steal the tile where the embassy you want to nullify is located.

 

[ColonelCarter]

I've recently returned to playing Civ-5 Vox Populi after a 3-year break, so am relearning many things. Please help me understand how Generals can be used to steal Embassies. Thanks in advance.

If the Citadel (from planting a Great General) claims a tile with an Embassy on it, that City-State will no longer have an Embassy in its territory, so a new one may be constructed (by anyone, but you can have your own Great Diplomat standing by).

 

[DrBaryon]

Something I've started doing with my Great People Improvements is putting them where multiple cities can work them. Usually capital + largest nearby city and maybe one other nearby city. So if for example a city starts having literacy problems just give it the academy for a bit.