I don't get the CoL > CS Slingshot strategy

[hyn]

I just tried it with Ragnar. I managed to get CS with the Oracle at around 650 BC. It was an agonizing 50 turns or so; I had to prioritize the tech path to CS by bypassing iron working and some very basic techs. My workers couldn't do anything but build mines and chop wood. And since my starting city only had 1 hill in the fat cross, my productivity really suffered--not that I could really produce anything of value because I'm so behind.

Right now at 580 BC I have 2 cities and I'm getting raped by Barbarian Axemen. All I have is warriors! I don't think Bureaucracy is worth all this trouble...

 

[Meatbuster]

You should be able to optimize it a bit. You might be able to get the Oracle a bit faster than that. Since your workers can chop wood, haven't you connected copper yet and maybe built axemen in a second city?

 

[Mutineer]

Well, CS shot does benefit you a lot, but you just went it a wrong way.

First, it is advisable to do it when you have some good source of commerce at capital or second city. It could be gold, gems, silver or even furs.
If nothing like that avalible, but you financial couple cottagess on river will do the trick.

Standart way to do it is to build 2 connected cities first, so you use trade commerce. Increase you coomerce and it will not take that long. Often people get CS shot about 1800 BC.

if no source of commerce avalible, choise lessser, Col from oracle and research CS by using Prophet Oracle will generate.

It is all about adaptation. You can not expect one recepie work in all situations or the game will be boring.

On more hurd levels using Oracle to get Col become standart, because otherwise AI beat you to oracle or you stail your development for way tooo long. In many cases oracle become a bad choise all together if you do not have marble avalible or yur production is bad.

 

[hyn]

Unfortunately there was no copper nearby. I could have built the Oracle much earlier, but I had to wait for CoL to complete so I could lightbulb CS.

 

[hyn]

I did have some decent source of commerce from fish. I didn't go for roads though so I guess that was bad. How is CS at 1800 BC possible? That must have some insane research..

 

[Mutineer]

Think how you can generate MORE commerce and how you can get MORE shields faster.
Fish give only 2 commerce, gold gives 8.

 

[Stolen Rutters]

The CS slingshot is not an end in itself if you have a victory condition as a goal. You really have to need the benefit or be in a position to take advantage of the benefit ASAP to pursue that track.

Slingshots usually require you to delay certain goals for later with the expectation of catching up afterwards.

CS slingshot = early Bureaucracy+early irrigation+half of the tech requirements of macemen (meaning early macemen if you push your Bureaucracy and irrigation advantage to early Machinery...

Macemen require an iron mine, CS, and Machinery, so delaying ironworking is a risk if you wanted to use the Oracle to speed up these killer units.

At Emperor, I have only managed the Liberalism slingshot. Oracle gets built way too fast.

 

[Meatbuster]

You CAN build the Oracle in 1800 BC but you will likely only get Metal Casting... or Code of Laws if you're lucky. A more realistic date for Warlord-Noble-Prince is around 1100-800BC if you wish to get Civil Service out of it.

Oh yeah, if you don't have Bronze after Bronze Working then you might consider a de-tour to Animal Husbandry or Archery first so you can build units, that or abandoning the CS slingshot in favor of defending your cities.

 

[voek]

You came up with your strategy before you knew the map, so it seems. You can plan some Grand strategy on forehand, but you are still very depended on the starting location and it surroundings. I am not saying the slingshot isn't doable with your current game,but I do think you should take your resources at hand somewhat more in consideration.

 

[jerVL/kg]

Everyone raves about the CS Slingshot but as you discovered, it's not always the right choice -- it delays your research, and unless you have a pressing need for Bureaucracy (high production/commerce in your capital city already) then the benefits aren't all that great.

What I like to do with the Oracle is use it for Metal Casting (only requires Bronze Working & Pottery), then chop-rush or whip a Forge, hire an Engineer, then use the GE (hoping you get one!) to rush the Pyramids. Use the next GE to rush the Hanging Gardens. Use the next GE to rush the Great Library. And so on and so on...

 

[cabert]

you cannot build the oracle in your first and only city. You need other cities to take care of the rest = units, workers, more settlers.
+ 50 turns for CoL is much too long. In so many turns you could have a granary, and a good deal of cottages if you had researched pottery (prereq for writing, which is a prereq for CoL!)

 

[gdgrimm]

Oracle slingshots (of any type) are NOT always the best move.

You need to learn to recognize when you have the proper setup for them, and when you don't.

 

[asabahi]

Get CoL via the Oracle and use the GP to light bulb CS (do not research Masonary). You will probably have a few research turns left over on CS after light bulbing it but that is OK. Make sure when that you set up your capital as a financial and/or produciton city to benefit from bureaucracy.

 

[Tauro]

Very simple.
Don't build Oracle in a one hill city.

 

[acidsatyr]

but most important thing to even consider getting world wonder on immortal imo is resource. if you have no marble dont even think about getting gl or oracle unless you have a solid production in city but even thenn its a risk.
this is why industrious is actually nice trait if playing immortal imo

 

[Pantastic]

Macemen require an iron mine, CS, and Machinery, so delaying ironworking is a risk if you wanted to use the Oracle to speed up these killer units.

Macemen only require bronze, if you have a bronze mine you don't have to worry about ironworking, though in this case it was just a bad plan overall.

 

[Stolen Rutters]

Macemen only require bronze, if you have a bronze mine you don't have to worry about ironworking, though in this case it was just a bad plan overall.

doh, I forgot. He said he had no copper... I guess I was thinking about his situation when I wrote that. I do remember having access to maces without Iron, but I have recently played way too many games without copper.

 

[Bierp]

Macemen only require bronze, if you have a bronze mine you don't have to worry about ironworking, though in this case it was just a bad plan overall.

Be warned though, Samurai (the Japanese UU to replace macemen) DO require iron. I've been burned on that one before. /sigh

B