Imperialistic trait

Bast

Bast

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5 leaders will take on this trait in BTS: Augustus, Justinian, Suleiman, Charlemagne and Joao II. Previously, underused, this will be a very common trait now.

What do you guys think about this trait now? Is it still underpowered? Why do you think they haven't given it more?

Personally, it still remains a favourite of mine through Victoria and now Augustus.
 
I personally have always liked the trait as well, and I look forward to playing with the new Imperialist leaders. As far as I know, we do not know whether or not it will be improved in BTS. I would not be totally surprised to see it get +50% or +100% Great Spy birthrate. I think it's already an awesome trait, but maybe if Firaxis did that people would stop complaining about it. :) I like the way it is, but I don't think it'd be a bad thing to provide them with a Great Spy bonus as well. It would give the Imperialist trait a bonus for non-warmongers.
 
Actually this is one of the better balanced traits. It allows you to get out a number of cheap settlers and set up a decent empire, without crippling your growth, and then later you can use that empire to attack someone else and get great generals to improve your military might, and production of military units.

What it is weak for is "pure agression" players that, as stated somewhere else, build two cities and send a rush to take the rest of their empire from somebody else.

It also has great synergy with the Great Wall. So you throw up your first four or five cities, build the great wall to keep the barbarians out, and when your victim tries to counter attack your defenders get another 100% bonus to cranking out those generals.

I think the trait is under valued mostly because a lot of people either play total war, or total peace. For a balanced, non rush, strategy the trait is actually fairly powerful.
 
I agree that it's useful for sending out your early settlers and getting a big empire before your rivals, but I think after that it's total war. There's no reason to sit back after you build your first few settlers (and I agree the bonus given to settlers is significant too). But after my first few settlers go out, I prepare for war and build units in all my cities. Then I usually select my favorite productive military city (that has a lot of food and hills, forests, and rivers are a plus for watermills) and put my first few Great Generals in it and start pumping out Level 3 units in no time. Then I have such elite troops that I just keep warring and pumping out more Great Generals, so I build an Academy in a military city or two, join one or two as Warlords, join more to more cities... By the end, I don't even know what to do with them anymore because my troops are already so elite... But I find Imperialist best as a "Total War" strategy after your first few settlers. After you build your first few settlers, you don't get any bonuses from Imperialism when you're at peace, so there really is no reason to be at peace. Which is why I think it would make sense to give Imperialism a Great Spy bonus from Espionage Points too.

But I do like the trait too so I'm not complaining but I'd love to see Imperialist get the Espionage bonus too :)
 
winddbourne said:
I think the trait is under valued mostly because a lot of people either play total war, or total peace. For a balanced, non rush, strategy the trait is actually fairly powerful.
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Exactly, this is how I play.

Usually I'm very sneaky. I wait for the best opportunity to go to war and find the best opportunity to sign a treaty. This way I minimize loss and maximize gains - money, techs, land.

I'd love the espionage bonus.
 
Nah, it's not anymore, they fixed it (at least improved it) in the latest patch for Warlords.

Does anyone have any idea how the Production of Great Spies will work? Will it work more like the vanilla Great Persons like the Great Merchant/Great Scientist/etc, or the Great General in Warlords? I was under the impression that it Espionage Points would produce them, and having them join the cities produces Espionage points, and buildings produce the points... and after so many points, you get a Great Spy separate from the standard Great Person?

To me, this would make the most sense... I hope it is separate from the standard Great Person system, and I hope Imperialist increases them :)
 
bonafide11 said:
Nah, it's not anymore, they fixed it (at least improved it) in the latest patch for Warlords.

Does anyone have any idea how the Production of Great Spies will work? Will it work more like the vanilla Great Persons like the Great Merchant/Great Scientist/etc, or the Great General in Warlords? I was under the impression that it Espionage Points would produce them, and having them join the cities produces Espionage points, and buildings produce the points... and after so many points, you get a Great Spy separate from the standard Great Person?

To me, this would make the most sense... I hope it is separate from the standard Great Person system, and I hope Imperialist increases them :)
Click to expand...
It's definitely separate from the Great Person system.
 
Okay, thank Sid... Anyone care to speculate on what traits or civics might increase the Great Spy rate?
 
Bast:
It's definitely separate from the Great Person system.
Click to expand...


Really? Up until a few days ago - the recent glut of previews - I suspected that great spies would use a unique slider but it now seems to me that the great merchant/scientist/etc. slider will incorporate great spies as well.
 
Thedrin said:
Really? Up until a few days ago - the recent glut of previews - I suspected that great spies would use a unique slider but it now seems to me that the great merchant/scientist/etc. slider will incorporate great spies as well.
Click to expand...

I thought there would be a separate slider like CULTURE in which case it would have to be separate. Isn't it logical? :confused:
 
Commerce can be split into 4 different areas: espionage points, gold, beakers, and culture. The three existing sliders have no affect on great person production. The great people relating to gold (merchants), beakers (scientist), and culture (artists) are all generated using the same independent great person slider. There is no reason that I know of to suspect that great spies will be linked to how commerce is divided out.
 
Oh please tell me that Great Spies aren't part of the standard Great Person system... If I have to worry about producing another type of Great Person in my GPF I am really not going to be happy...
 
It's been all but confirmed - assuming LDeska's information is accurate. Spy specialists - not spies but citizens of a city - provide great spy points as will some wonders.
 
Yes, I saw that, but I still think it could operate independently of the other Great People system.
 
As I've already said, I enjoy the Imperialist trait as it is, but if Philosophical affects the Birthrate of Great Spies, I'm not sure if Firaxis has any intentions of improving the Imperialist trait. I think Imperialist deserves some form of bonus for peacetime (besides the early Settler bonus) so the trait still serves a function when one is not at war. I expected Imperialist to receive a Great Spy bonus or some form of Espionage bonus, but it appears that it may be unlikely for that to happen. I don't think Imperialist needs a huge bonus, but I would like to see something else added to the trait so one does not have to be at war the entire game to enjoy its effects.

Anyone care to speculate on how, or if, Firaxis intends on improving the Imperialist trait?
 
Lord Olleus said:
Imperialistic suffers from not having any half price buildings. I would give them half price marketplace and/or custom house to represent empires spreading by trade as well as war. That, or a bonus from having vassals (+2 happy instead of the usual +1?)
Click to expand...

They could make intelligence agencies half-priced for imperialistic...
 
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