shotdown08
Chieftain
I know that the AI cheats when building things. I was wondering if there is a special strategy or trick to building wonders.
Is there a way to beat the AI in building Wonders?
- Thread starter shotdown08
- Start date
shadowdale
CFC Drunkard
Well there are two thing that you can use, money and caravans.....
There isn't any special trick, you can either pump up the tax rate to get more money or build some caravans to help build the wonder. I know some people build the caravans in advance so they can build the wonder in one turn. You can also start building another wonder before you get the tech to build the wonder you want and then change over when you get the tech - that way you can finish them quite fast....
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Veni Vidi Vici.
Coolbook:
Håkan Eriksson, Stormerne, vladmir_illych_lenin, Cunobelin Of Hippo, Bluemonday.
There isn't any special trick, you can either pump up the tax rate to get more money or build some caravans to help build the wonder. I know some people build the caravans in advance so they can build the wonder in one turn. You can also start building another wonder before you get the tech to build the wonder you want and then change over when you get the tech - that way you can finish them quite fast....
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Veni Vidi Vici.
Coolbook:
Håkan Eriksson, Stormerne, vladmir_illych_lenin, Cunobelin Of Hippo, Bluemonday.
Supernaut
Prince
It also helps if you plan where you are going to build your wonders. I usually end up with 2 or 3 cities in my heartland (generally including my capital) which become 'wonder' cities. They are big and have lots of shield production, as well as most of the improvements I need. Also, they are close to each other and connected by road or rail. When I get the opportunity to build a wonder, one of these will do so, while the others produce caravans to help. Often, I will build King Richard's Crusade in one city, and then use that production boost to build lots more wonders there. I often combine this with Shakespeare's Theatre, so that it can produce and support a large army for my democracy.
There is also the 'Science city' idea -explored elsewhere, but basically involves combining the Colossus, Copernicus' and Issac Newton's in one city to get max science production.
Of course, there are tricks, like stockpiling caravans. Also, if you are building the last available wonder and the AI beats you too it, you can keep building until you get access to another one, and then you don't lose the production, and will probably finish in a couple of turns at most. You do have to put up with warning messages every tun, but it can be worth it.
Finally, the best way to beat the Ai to a certain wonder is to develop the necessary tech much more quickly
[This message has been edited by Supernaut (edited May 22, 2001).]
There is also the 'Science city' idea -explored elsewhere, but basically involves combining the Colossus, Copernicus' and Issac Newton's in one city to get max science production.
Of course, there are tricks, like stockpiling caravans. Also, if you are building the last available wonder and the AI beats you too it, you can keep building until you get access to another one, and then you don't lose the production, and will probably finish in a couple of turns at most. You do have to put up with warning messages every tun, but it can be worth it.
Finally, the best way to beat the Ai to a certain wonder is to develop the necessary tech much more quickly
[This message has been edited by Supernaut (edited May 22, 2001).]
BlueMonday
Can I Kick It?
You could also plan a wonder switch. It's pretty simple actually. All you do is start building a wonder that the AI is building too. When the AI beats you, keep building that wonder; it will stockpile production points for a wonder. Then when you're done researching the wonder that you really want, you just switch to that wonder (because they are both WoW, they won't penalize you for switching).
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Mongol Horde
Resident Savage Army
I save up for Leos workshop lots of turns before I actually get invention and when I do get invention I switch straight to it and with the bit of money that I have saved up *poof* instant wonder.
TimTheEnchanter
I...am...an Enchanter!
Most of this has been said already but...
(1) Plan and priortize the wonders you want and know how many caravans you will need. Try to guess about when you will be able to build each wonder. Obviously this plan may need to be altered, but always know what wonders are coming up and which ones you really want of that bunch.
(2) Pick your wonder cities. Preferably close together so they can share excess caravans if necessary. Make sure happiness will stay under control in those cities. Also not threatened by an enemy if possible. Often this means your older, core cities around the capital.
(3) Build food caravans in as many nearby cities as is prudent. Use incremental Rushbuilding if possible. Remember- incremental rushbuilding caravans is cheaper per sheild than rushbuying the wonder itself.
(4) Send the caravans to wonder cities. And fortify them until you need them. Send to one city at a time if possible (send enough to first city to complete one wonder, then send to second city, etc. If possile, put in a fort that is reachable to both cities in one turn so you can rush either wonder from a single supply.
(5) If you can afford to, use caravans to build the wonder in one turn when tech is available, but if there is no threat of an AI civ finishing it, you may want to do it the old-fashioned way and save the caravans for another wonder.
Basically plan ahead and save up early. I think of food caravans as Mini-wonders waiting to grow up.
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DEATH awaits you all...with nasty, big, pointy teeth.
(1) Plan and priortize the wonders you want and know how many caravans you will need. Try to guess about when you will be able to build each wonder. Obviously this plan may need to be altered, but always know what wonders are coming up and which ones you really want of that bunch.
(2) Pick your wonder cities. Preferably close together so they can share excess caravans if necessary. Make sure happiness will stay under control in those cities. Also not threatened by an enemy if possible. Often this means your older, core cities around the capital.
(3) Build food caravans in as many nearby cities as is prudent. Use incremental Rushbuilding if possible. Remember- incremental rushbuilding caravans is cheaper per sheild than rushbuying the wonder itself.
(4) Send the caravans to wonder cities. And fortify them until you need them. Send to one city at a time if possible (send enough to first city to complete one wonder, then send to second city, etc. If possile, put in a fort that is reachable to both cities in one turn so you can rush either wonder from a single supply.
(5) If you can afford to, use caravans to build the wonder in one turn when tech is available, but if there is no threat of an AI civ finishing it, you may want to do it the old-fashioned way and save the caravans for another wonder.
Basically plan ahead and save up early. I think of food caravans as Mini-wonders waiting to grow up.
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DEATH awaits you all...with nasty, big, pointy teeth.
Kev
Hired Goon
Caravans and cash are certainly the quickest way to get your wonders built before the AI, but these options may not be available early enough for some of the very early wonders. In order to get at the Great Wall, Pyramids, Colossus, Hanging Gardens, etc. you may not have been able to get to trade, and chances are you don't have large stores of cash to use either.
With these valuable early wonders, my strategy is to simply start early. In my first few cities I'll build a warrior, a settler, another warrior, possibly a temple if on a higher level, and then go for a wonder. Warriors for their speed of building and because they are just as good at martial law, the settlers because they are needed to expand, and the temple to allow the city an extra worker or two before entertainers may be needed.
I know that others will build a second settler, a library, a marketplace or some other combination. However, if you're at Deity level with several other civs, I've always found it best to get going on wonders ASAP and let the later cities build the extra settlers/improvements. On lower levels I may build that extra settler or a phalanx instead of a warrior, but even then it pays to begin early. Still, as Tim mentions, prioritizing is a key issue as well. I'll often give up certain wonders like the Lighthouse or Oracle to be sure I get the ones I want.
Once trade is available, I find that I can get far enough ahead in tech with the early wonders on my side to be able to build more "actual" caravans for trade and build a minimal amount of food caravans for later wonders. The Great Wall means I may not have to build huge defenses right away, the Gardens allow more growth wil less agitation, the Pyramids help with growth in general and keeps the AI from having it, and the Colossus is a great first step for the science city and a perfect "homing" place for those caravans.
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Diplomacy - the art of
saying "Good Doggie"
until you can find a rock
With these valuable early wonders, my strategy is to simply start early. In my first few cities I'll build a warrior, a settler, another warrior, possibly a temple if on a higher level, and then go for a wonder. Warriors for their speed of building and because they are just as good at martial law, the settlers because they are needed to expand, and the temple to allow the city an extra worker or two before entertainers may be needed.
I know that others will build a second settler, a library, a marketplace or some other combination. However, if you're at Deity level with several other civs, I've always found it best to get going on wonders ASAP and let the later cities build the extra settlers/improvements. On lower levels I may build that extra settler or a phalanx instead of a warrior, but even then it pays to begin early. Still, as Tim mentions, prioritizing is a key issue as well. I'll often give up certain wonders like the Lighthouse or Oracle to be sure I get the ones I want.
Once trade is available, I find that I can get far enough ahead in tech with the early wonders on my side to be able to build more "actual" caravans for trade and build a minimal amount of food caravans for later wonders. The Great Wall means I may not have to build huge defenses right away, the Gardens allow more growth wil less agitation, the Pyramids help with growth in general and keeps the AI from having it, and the Colossus is a great first step for the science city and a perfect "homing" place for those caravans.
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Diplomacy - the art of
saying "Good Doggie"
until you can find a rock
hbourj
Chieftain
The points I see important :
1) You could also plan a wonder switch. I use to do that. I agree with BlueMonday.
2) In Deity level, almost impossible to build a Wonder with a weak city, wich is not receiving a lot of caravans.
3) Choise the Wonders you really need and can buid.
Some month are a need to play well this game. Many years after, there are a lot of things to learn, about better your play.
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Henri Bourjade
1) You could also plan a wonder switch. I use to do that. I agree with BlueMonday.
2) In Deity level, almost impossible to build a Wonder with a weak city, wich is not receiving a lot of caravans.
3) Choise the Wonders you really need and can buid.
Some month are a need to play well this game. Many years after, there are a lot of things to learn, about better your play.
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Henri Bourjade
Magnus
Diplocat
When I was making the transition from lower levels to higher levels, it used to bother me when I wouldnt get all the wonders I desired - but then I learned not to sweat it and just conquer them when I got the chance.
Andu Indorin
Retired Druid
Agreeing with Tim and Kev:
Plan and Prioritize!!! This is especially true with the first set of wonders; and it depends on the style of game that you play. But ...
I must emphasize: build King Richard's Crusade -- the Wonder that build Wonders. (This wonder may have been designed as an anti-cheating AI cheat -- whatever that means).
(Is there any one else out there who figures that they have to make this a less powerful wonder in Civ3?)
[This message has been edited by Andu Indorin (edited May 26, 2001).]
Plan and Prioritize!!! This is especially true with the first set of wonders; and it depends on the style of game that you play. But ...
I must emphasize: build King Richard's Crusade -- the Wonder that build Wonders. (This wonder may have been designed as an anti-cheating AI cheat -- whatever that means).
(Is there any one else out there who figures that they have to make this a less powerful wonder in Civ3?)
[This message has been edited by Andu Indorin (edited May 26, 2001).]
allan
Cabrón
King Richard's? It isn't TOO powerful.... I must say it IS very helpful in building one industrial-strength city before industry--but then again, it's a wonder, so what do you expect? Besides, I often find it's the most short-lived wonder of the game (between engineering and industrialization)...but it helps out tremendously in that critical mid-game phase.
I think one wonder that is RIDICULOUSLY powerful is Leonardo's--instant upgrades, even in the field! If they want to tone it down for CivIII, perhaps they could make the upgrades happen only when you cycle the units through your cities--the unit must "check in" to a city to be upgraded, and is out of action for maybe one or two turns during the process....
I'll bet in MP games (never tried one yet), he who gets Leonardo's really has it made, and everyone else is f*cked. Against the AI, I ALWAYS get it--as much to keep the AI from getting it as to reap its benefits myself!
I think one wonder that is RIDICULOUSLY powerful is Leonardo's--instant upgrades, even in the field! If they want to tone it down for CivIII, perhaps they could make the upgrades happen only when you cycle the units through your cities--the unit must "check in" to a city to be upgraded, and is out of action for maybe one or two turns during the process....
I'll bet in MP games (never tried one yet), he who gets Leonardo's really has it made, and everyone else is f*cked. Against the AI, I ALWAYS get it--as much to keep the AI from getting it as to reap its benefits myself!
Civmaster
Chieftain
Well its simple just loer sci tax and lux tax and then u will get lotz of money then spend it on wonders
starlifter
Deity
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- 4,210
That depends totally on how you use it. If you use KR in a Monarchy with a size 4-9 city, the results are merely OK.
If you use KR in a good Republic city, you could get 21 *extra* shields per turn, for around 60-80 turns. In GOTM 6, KR lasted for 77 turns, although my city grossly underutilized it (size 6 to 13).
In a "normal" use of KR in a properly-run republic, you'll get from 1200 to 1600 shields from the existence of KR. Couple that with the "normal" cost of getting those shields (Factory, Offshore, MassTransit... see my pollution thread for detais), and you stand to get the equivilent of up to 880 "savings" in gold.
In GOTM 6 (Monarchy/Communism), I got "only" about 770 shields back from KR... but the real value was in keeping my SSC upgraded with all improvements, which in turn kept science coming in every 2-4 turns.
starlifter
Deity
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I agree that Leo's is great, in most situations. But it has drawbacks, particularly if you have a strong vet navy of Ironclads and get Electricity at an inopportune moment.
However, hands down, the most powerful, far-reaching, and valuable for any large empire (in terms of value and length of use) is... Michealangelo's Chapel. It is instantly available in all new cities, and will cause any new city to be content from first founding. The "cost" is 120 shields, plus 3 gold per turn.
With a moderate-sized 150 city empire, that value is 18,000 shields, or a little less than 36,000 gold (in rush-buy value). In terms of upgrades, this is about equal to upgrading roughly 900 military units.
The effect of MC on production in a Monarchy, or even other governments, is also huge and cumulative.
Unlike even the great Hoover Dam, MC is used and eventually needed by every city... and it is in effect for far longer that the HD.
So my "wonder of wonders"... the all-powerful... in any large-empire game... is still the wonder of Michelangelo
I'd have to agree with Tim and Kev. Plan for the ones you want and plan early.
I use to play where I wanted all the wonders, but then realized that some of them just were not worth it.
If you know an AI civ is going for a wonder you want try to build it yourself with caravans and money. If that doesn't work and you are close the civ, attack the city. Once it is down to one or two defensers, it will switch its production to units for defense. If all that fails, plan on capturing it as soon as you can, or getting the Tech that cancels it out.
I use to play where I wanted all the wonders, but then realized that some of them just were not worth it.
If you know an AI civ is going for a wonder you want try to build it yourself with caravans and money. If that doesn't work and you are close the civ, attack the city. Once it is down to one or two defensers, it will switch its production to units for defense. If all that fails, plan on capturing it as soon as you can, or getting the Tech that cancels it out.
starlifter
Deity
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In GOTM 4, I had passed Kiev with a trireme and diplomat on a standard exploration tour. I was already at war with the Rissians, and one day's sailing from Kiev, it was announced that Kiev finished SunTzu. I double back, and simply took it via bribe. It was tough to defend and keep that city, but in the end far cheaper than busting my gut trying to build it myself. Admittedly, it is rare to be in the right position to bribe a city right after it makes a wonder. But then, if you have ships and dips roaming the seas, you can make your own luck in many cases!
HIEROPHANT
Videogame God
ususualy in deity i get 24 out of 28 wonder whatever ones i dont get take them over but it is possable to beat computer to all wonders on this level.
starlifter
Deity
- Joined
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Most people do not really realize that Civ II is a game of mathematics under the hood. It is highly improbably, but not impossible, to get all the wonders on your own (no captures). Once, I took all but one (Lighthouse, I think) at deity, large map, 7 civs. I was pressing very hard, and had few units, and no wars at the time. It was not until later realized how close I had come to building all the wonders... it was not a goal, it just turned out that way.
One thing is essential... the right combinations of start positions. No player can overcome bad luck, or even average luck, of starting positions and available terrain. Simple mathematics, LOL...
HIEROPHANT
Videogame God
You got that right the mid late wonders are easy to get. even in a very bad game once i was on a small island with 4 until 1000ad germans have adamsmith and 4 other wonder when i found them i took them in one turn when i attacked.
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