Leader specifc Dark Ages

[halfhalfharp]

Warning, this is a long post.

We know that in the coming expansion, there is a new system featuring the Golden and Dark ages.
Although we still do not know how it works in detail, I propose we can add a leader/civilization specific one on top of the dark age penalty (or replacing it).

This is kind a draw back to picking a specific civ or leader. We have leader/civ ability, why shouldn't we have civ specfic weakness?

This will add more historical references into normal dark age.

Here are some ideas that I come up to:

Qin ShiHuang: Bloody Tyrant
-Building builders in the city stops its population growth.

Notes: Qin's building projects pushed his people into slavery and
severe casualties were resulted even without wars.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cleopatra: The last Pharaoh
-Trade route to a civ reduces other civs' war penalty towards her by 25%.
-If she forms an alliance with a civ, the reduction will be 50%.

Notes: Cleopatra's life failure was triggered by her alliance with Mark Anthony, who eventually lost facing Octavian.
If she allied herself with Octavian... then the last pages of ancient Egyptian history would have been different.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Trajan: Fall of Rome
-Combat strength decreases by 5 when fighting barbarians
-cities 6 tiles away from capital has a chance to create rebels every turn.

Notes: I guess we all know Rome was harassed by the Barbarians from all sides due to her enormous size.
The instability also created lots of rebels and mutinies over the millennia of Rome's history.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Catherine di Medici: St Bartholomew's Night
-Converting her cities with another religion creates rebels.

Notes: Catherine di Medici oversaw, or plotted (as many suggested) the greatest religious massacre France has ever seen in history, the St Bartholomew's Night.
Originally a feast of her daughter Margot's marriage.
It became a massacre against the protestants soon in the night.
Tens of thousands of protestants were killed and dragged France deep into the religious conflicts.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Philip II: Persecution
-Trades routes to cities with another religion halves the yield.
-Inquisition to own cities -15% production.

Notes: The inquisition of Spain executed or banished a great number of Muslims and Jews,
resulting in a great loss of craftsmen and traders.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Montezuma: Eschatology
-Units fight with -5 strength against units from another continents.

Notes: The Aztecs were so unprepared to foreign forces at that time. A few hundred spanish explorers could even conquer the entire capital, which housed thousands of people.
I guess a combat strength penalty will suit this historical reference and also discourage Montezuma's leader ability.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pericles: Peloponnesian League
-His city states allies has -5 combat strength.

Notes: The Delian League which Pericles of Athens lead, fell in the Peloponnesian War and was broken immediately.
The Peloponnesian League, having Sparta as its leader, soon replaced the original Delian League and Athen's glory was no more.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gitarja: Mahapatih
-Without a prime minister... I meant, without a great general or admiral in her country,
her navy fights with -5 strength outside of her territory.

Notes: Gitarja's expansion of the Majapahit empire mainly depended on the prime minister Gajah Mada,
who serviced three Majapahit monarchs over his life.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter the great: Holy Synod
-Science and culture benefits from trade routes increase cost of religion purchase by the equal amount.

Notes: Peter the great was famous for his low regards towards the Church actually.
In his reign, he formed the Holy Synod to greatly reduce the church's power,
and made them under the royalties' control.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gilgamesh: Death of Enkidu
-Loss of an ally or city state suzerain-ship will stop city production for 1 turn.

Notes: In the Epic of Gilgamesh, Gilgamesh was so depressed and frightened by his friend Enkidu's death.
This made him abandon his duty to his people and turned to the pursuit of Elixir of Immortality.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amanitore: Gravediggers
-Her nubian pyramids have a chance to be pillaged every turn.

Notes: The nubian pyramids... em, now the pyramid ruins, although they once stood proudly in the dessert, all of them were robbed and remained broken.
The problem of Gravediggers had been serious even back in the ancient times.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cyrus the great: Head soaked in Blood
-Surprise war reduces other civilizations' war penalty against Persia. If the targets of surprise war survive, they will get a permanent +3 strength in fighting Persia in future wars.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tomyris: Revenge creates revenge
-Civilizations that have warred with her before gain +3 combat strength against her.

Notes: The intertwining relationship between Tomyris and Cyrus... Tomyris sought to revenge his son against Cyrus and Scythia was conquered again by Darius. The revenge rolled on and on.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alexander: Exhausted Will
-Military units stop normal healing outside of friendly territory.

Notes: Alexander's great conquest was stopped by his own army. Being tired of continuous warfare, they refused to follow him into another battlefield.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Genghis Khan: Fragmented Khanates
-Conquers cities without a garrison unit have a high chance of creating rebels.

Notes: The Mongols needed to leave a portion of their army in their conquered cities in order to maintain their control.
This thinned the Mongol army as they stretched the empire over a vast territory.
As we all know, the Mongolian empire dissolved quickly after the fall of Genghis Khan,
divided into several khanates that kept warring with each other.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jayavarman VII: People's Suffer
-Building faith relating districts or buildings stop the city's population growth until they are finished.

Notes: The glory of Angkor capital was based on the mass production of temples and palace complexes in the rainforest.
Thousands of hard labor were needed. As in a quote in the Angkor Thom ruins, which also appeared in his leader greeting lines,
"the people's suffering is my suffering" perfectly indicates the hardship of building such glorious wonders.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Poundmaker: Great Westward migration
-Trader from foreign cities bordering the Cree's will act as a culture bomb when they first enter Cree territory. This can only happen once per foreign city.

Notes: This is referenced to the settling of foreigners into the lands of the first nations, occupying the lands of their ancestors and oppressing their living.
This also counters the Cree's ability to gain tiles using traders and settlers,
forcing the original peaceful Cree to get into conflicts with their neighbors.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gorgo: Leuctra's Defeat
-When she is facing a civ with lower military strength in general, losing an unit decreases all her units' comabt strength by 1, lasting until the era ends.

Notes: A defeat that marked the long decline of the Spartans' might, the loss at Leuctra was the first time Spartan military lost at their full strength.
I guess this will suit Gorgo's Greece as a way to make her less aggressive, at least without a better war planning.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barbarossa: Decentralized
-Conquered city states do not allow you to control their production choice anymore, until the end of the era. You can still get the cities' yield though.

Notes: Barbarossa started the constume of giving occupied lands to his fellow dukes and allies, dividing the empire into pieces of territories controlled by local lords.
This greatly weakened the Holy Roman Empires for the following centuries to come.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seondeok: The Hermit Kingdom (contributed by Eric Guimarães)
-Halves the profit from international trade route. Unable to form new allies nor joint war in the era.

Notes: Korea in the Joseon period tried to isolate itself in diplomatic matters, all expect for its ties with China.
The western explorers mentioned Korea as the Hermit Kingdom, as the first use of this term.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hojo Tokimune: Sengoku Jidai (contributed by Eric Guimarães)
-In Dark ages, Japanese cities have their loyalties reduced by 100%,defense stats reduced by 25% against barbarians attacks and -1 ammenity needed to trigger rebels,however,reconquering free cities previously owned by themselves(Japan),earn +50% loyalty and +1 ammenity in that city throughout the game and +4 era score.

Notes: Sengoku Jidai, the warring era, was one of the most significant era in Japanese history.
With the Daimyos fighting each other for extension of their influences, Japan was thrown into chaos and bloodshed.
Plots and betrayal all happened in one chapter. And the unification after this great instability solidified the spirit of Japan as one, giving the deep identity of being a Japanese.
This continuous period of war created Japan's most famous warlords and legends, rising inspirations and fantasies for the following generations to come.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wilhelmina: sugar rush (contributed by Eric Guimarães)
-In Dark ages, Dutch cities settled on continents different from the capital's, receive 1+ ammenities, but it's defense stats are cut by 75% and loyalty is reduced by 25%.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Saladin: Sunni and Shi'ah
-The cities with his religions randomly benefit from either follower's believes or worship believes. Cities following different belief from the holy city's will have a 50% reduction of loyalty.

Notes: This is based on the realistic condition in the cleft between Sunni Muslims and Shia Muslims. Although following the same religion, they have differences in theology.
Throughout the history, these two parties raged wars against each other for numerous times.
If we call a war within a nation the civil war, those will be civil wars within a religion.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These are all minor changing that discourages the leader abilities or gives an opening to other opponents, instead of directly penalizing the civ's outputs.

How do you guys think? Can you help me think of more?

(Edite: updated Korea, Arabia, Japan and Netherlands)

 

[TheSpaceCowboy]

I love this idea! What are your proposals for the newly announced civilizations, such as the Cree and Mongols?

 

[halfhalfharp]

I love this idea! What are your proposals for the newly announced civilizations, such as the Cree and Mongols?

I have added a few more ideas including the Crees and Mongols. See if they are good?

 

[Eric Guimarães]

I liked it very much!
I thought of :
Korea:hermit kingdom= In Dark ages, all yields from international Korean trade routes are halved.
The Netherlands:sugar rush= In Dark ages, Dutch cities settled on continents different from the capital's, receive 1+ ammenities, but it's defense stats are cut by 75% and loyalty is reduced by 25%.
Japan:sengoku jidai= In Dark ages, Japanese cities have their loyalties reduced by 100%,defense stats reduced by 25% against barbarians attacks and -1 ammenity needed to trigger rebels,however,reconquering free cities previously owned by themselves(Japan),earn +50% loyalty and +1 ammenity in that city throughout the game and +4 era score.

 

[halfhalfharp]

I liked it very much!
I thought of :
Korea:hermit kingdom= In Dark ages, all yields from international Korean trade routes are halved.
The Netherlands:sugar rush= In Dark ages, Dutch cities settled on continents different from the capital's, receive 1+ ammenities, but it's defense stats are cut by 75% and loyalty is reduced by 25%.
Japan:sengoku jidai= In Dark ages, Japanese cities have their loyalties reduced by 100%,defense stats reduced by 25% against barbarians attacks and -1 ammenity needed to trigger rebels,however,reconquering free cities previously owned by themselves(Japan),earn +50% loyalty and +1 ammenity in that city throughout the game and +4 era score.

I really do like your idea of Japanese Dark Age!! It is surely a nice challenge to play as Japan in reconquering own cities and gain the rewarding bonus. And above all, its a perfect reference to the history. nice job there.

Although I am not sure how the loyalty system works, will the 100% loyalty penalty be too great?
I mean, the cities may also be grabbed by other players rather than being a free city.

But the idea itself is very nice indeed.

The Dutch one is good too, Although I dont know the background of sugar rush. Can you explain me a bit?

The hermit kingdom is also an accurate reference to korea. But I will add more above... something like forbidding direct trade and ally formation?

If you dont mind, can I add your ideas into the post too? I will mark them as your ideas of course.

 

[Eric Guimarães]

The Dutch one is good too, Although I dont know the background of sugar rush. Can you explain me a bit?

The hermit kingdom is also an accurate reference to korea. But I will add more above... something like forbidding direct trade and ally formation?

If you dont mind, can I add your ideas into the post too? I will mark them as your ideas of course.

About the Dutch:They dominated the Northeast part of Brazil(sugar plantation region) for several years,which was something that they wanted for a long time due to the awesome profit sugar gave for it's sellers in Europe...This occupation was under the rule of Maurício de Nassau, a Dutch ruler, who provided many infraestructures and ammenities to the local capital Recife,however, the "Brazilian" people started to be disloyal to the Dutch regime and supported the Portuguese forces to invade the region and take it back to the Portuguese crown,which they made it easily.
About Korea: they did have alliances with the Chinese if I'm not wrong...so I thought that it's better for them to suffer an economic dismotivation on international trade,because it really happened
Yes:you can use my ideas and change them if you want too,I'm nothing but your vassal in this topic

 

[halfhalfharp]

About the Dutch:They dominated the Northeast part of Brazil(sugar plantation region) for several years,which was something that they wanted for a long time due to the awesome profit sugar gave for it's sellers in Europe...This occupation was under the rule of Maurício de Nassau, a Dutch ruler, who provided many infraestructures and ammenities to the local capital Recife,however, the "Brazilian" people started to be disloyal to the Dutch regime and supported the Portuguese forces to invade the region and take it back to the Portuguese crown,which they made it easily.
About Korea: they did have alliances with the Chinese if I'm not wrong...so I thought that it's better for them to suffer an economic dismotivation on international trade,because it really happened
Yes:you can use my ideas and change them if you want too,I'm nothing but your vassal in this topic

Hah you are too humble, we all discuss as friends in this post. I am not mighty enough to claim any vassal xD.

Instead, Korea was kind of a vassal relationship than an ally to China when they became hermit. They were paying tributes at a frequency actually. I guess... maybe we can add a diplomatic penalty when Korea cant form an ally before dark age? Or make its international trade benefits more to its neighbors while the profit will be halved as you suggested?

Ohh the Dutch had such a history in Brazil, sth that i have never known before. Thanks for being such informative.

I need some time to organize them into the post, I shall let you know if they are updated, okay?

 

[halfhalfharp]

Yes:you can use my ideas and change them if you want too,I'm nothing but your vassal in this topic

Updated, finally!! See if they are all good?

 

[Eric Guimarães]

Updated, finally!! See if they are all good?

they are all nice! I liked the one for Saladin btw

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Those are some *really* awesome ideas. Even if it doesn't come out as an official part of the Expansion, I hope the modding tools are sufficient for some bright spark here to implement this as a Mod! Maybe it might even inspire them to bring it in for the 2nd Expansion.

 

[steveg700]

So, are we talking about alternate dedication bonuses? What have we seen of the golden/dark/heroic era benefits? I'm looking for something that indicates the baseline quality of a dedication bonus.

 

[halfhalfharp]

Those are some *really* awesome ideas. Even if it doesn't come out as an official part of the Expansion, I hope the modding tools are sufficient for some bright spark here to implement this as a Mod! Maybe it might even inspire them to bring it in for the 2nd Expansion.

Thankyou!! I do want them to be included in coming expansions. Creating new civilization leaders is as important as improving the features of the whole game system, in my opinion.

 

[halfhalfharp]

So, are we talking about alternate dedication bonuses? What have we seen of the golden/dark/heroic era benefits? I'm looking for something that indicates the baseline quality of a dedication bonus.

They are mainly draw backs of not enough dedications, actually,
which are meant to discourage some of the leader abilities or open up a weakness for others to take advantage of.
If you are suggesting, we can make them fusing some bonuses as well.