Ley-lines anyone?

[upthorn]

This idea got started in the thread about railroad-like improvements.
I think it deserves its own thread.

A first post, and something of a hijack I'm afraid.

Don't think railway-esque works unless we're going Steampunk all the way.

But was no-one else made to think of leylines? Say an improvement that increases magic skill of one type while you're standing on it, only constructable between two nodes of the same type? For balance, only works once complete, and takes a long time to build (to avoid the tempatation to loop the line round your entire empire)

May not be feasible, but thought it's worth putting out there.

Leylines:

That sounds like kind of a neat idea, maybe a no movement cost "airlift" between two mana nodes (you have to have line of sight on both mana nodes). One of the mana nodes has to be a dimensional node, so you could go from a dimensonal node to any other node, or from any node to a dimensional node.

Now ley-lines soundlike a nice idea. Why should they have to be between nodes of the same type, though?

Usually in fantasy settings, ley-lines form naturally between mana nodes, and have been in existences since long before magic was discovered.

To implement this based solely on flavor, I would say that every raw node should have ley-lines running between it, and the nearest 3 or 4 nodes, in straight lines. Of course, seeing, and utilizing the ley-lines would have to require a tech. And perhaps nodes that have been altered (converted to a mana type) should be cut off from the ley-lines for a while, "until the magickal forces recalibrate". (which should only begin to happen a few turns after the tech that reveals ley-lines is discovered) Balance-wise, this would make it so that the first player to find nodes wouldn't immediately be able to find every other node on the map, unless they deliberately cripple themselves mana-wise until researching the tech. What the ley-lines would actually do is left to be determined, but I'm thinking what would be good is that, on ley-lines mages would have access to the spells provided by the connected mana-types. For instance, on a fire-water ley-line, a mage or adept would be able to cast scorch and spring a mage who already. On a fire-fire leyline, a mage or adept would be able to cast fireball A mage who already knew scorch or fire ball would be able to cast Meteor swarm.

But really, this topic should be pursued in a separate thread.

ya thats a neat idea, and maybe just in general if a mage stands on a node it can cast the spells of that type

This should probably be it's own tech, at about the same tier as Arcane Lore which requires alteration and elementalism in some way.

 

[Sureshot]

having it be a tech could be interesting, or as a feature of a civ or even from the Arcane trait.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

I wouldn't mind seeing it require a horse tech and an arcane tech. Perhaps the effected horse tech would be renamed, but if that path can just be considered the "travel" one, then we might be in business.

 

[bdmarti]

I love this ley-lines idea.

I suggest that we use the built in rail-roads mechanic and just create some new graphics.

Further, I would suggest that the ability to "build" lay lines be limited to the mage line and that they be given the "Route to" option only and not a "build ley line on any plot" option. This "Route to" option would need to be modified slightly such that it could only be started while standing on a mana node, and the only legal finishing plots for a route would be other mana nodes.

In this way, ley-lines would take time to build and they would only go between mana nodes.

An interesting effect that might exist by default is the ability to run a ley-line accross water if you had a unit with water-walking.

 

[QES]

There is SOOO Much land movement already. I know people want instantanious travel, but. Damn it, NO.

the FfH world is harsh, and hard (or is supposed to be). Travel is often the best form of reflection for difficulty. I know ley-lines would be late-game etc, etc. But it would also mean that the people who have them can ahve smaller more mobile armies. To be a military power should require large military might. Not mobility. I know how the RL world did this, but this is harsh wild lands, eventually tamed into warring lands still far and disparte.

Travel, should not be easy. Hell I'm personally in favor of making travel HARDER. Not sure how to do that, but still, its a wish.
-Qes

 

[Endovior]

I don't see what you're complaining about... Obsidian Gates, anyone? Even an actual vanilla railroad isn't instantaneous.

I'd tend to agree more if there was some sort of nasty side-effect to the gates, like a 10% chance of your unit being sent to hell or something.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

I'd tend to agree more if there was some sort of nasty side-effect to the gates, like a 10% chance of your unit being sent to hell or something.

How do you know there won't be

 

[Maian]

Like QES, I think travel is fast enough in the game.

But the whole concept of magic flowing thru ley-lines gave me an idea... How about magic nodes affecting improvements in the vicinity? This is similar to the node affecting environment feature that was in an earlier FfH version, except now the nodes would affect improvements.

For example, forts. An earth node could grant extra defense to units in forts. A fire could damage any enemies around the fort. A water node could slow down enemies around the fort. A death node could have a chance of inflicting disease on enemies around the fort. And so forth.

Besides adding flavor to the game, it also makes nodes more of a strategic asset, so players would be more inclined to fight over them.

 

[upthorn]

I wouldn't mind seeing it require a horse tech and an arcane tech. Perhaps the effected horse tech would be renamed, but if that path can just be considered the "travel" one, then we might be in business.

I love this ley-lines idea.

I suggest that we use the built in rail-roads mechanic and just create some new graphics.

Further, I would suggest that the ability to "build" lay lines be limited to the mage line and that they be given the "Route to" option only and not a "build ley line on any plot" option. This "Route to" option would need to be modified slightly such that it could only be started while standing on a mana node, and the only legal finishing plots for a route would be other mana nodes.

In this way, ley-lines would take time to build and they would only go between mana nodes.

An interesting effect that might exist by default is the ability to run a ley-line accross water if you had a unit with water-walking.

The whole point of separating this from the railroads thread is that ley-lines should not have travel applications.
Flavor points:
Ley-lines are the veins by which mana (not people) flows through the world.
Ley-lines form naturally (they have usually been around for millenia before man/elf/dwarfkind discovered mana).
Ley-lines can (often) be disrupted by magical phenomena.
Ley-lines make it easier to work magic.

Balance points:
Ley-lines should provide some sort of magic-related bonus.
Ley-lines should probably not be under any player's control.
Ley-lines should run in straight lines between nearby nodes.
Ley-lines should be disrupted by certain actions.
Ley-lines should not be visible without the tech to make use of them, to
prevent them from giving away the location of every mana node on the map.

In-game implementation ideas:
I concieve of a network where each node is linked to the nearest 3 or 4 by ley-lines.
I suggest that adepts/mages/conjurers/priests who are standing on (visible) ley-lines should get their channeling boosted until they leave the ley-line.
I suggest that either (A) mages on ley-lines should get a boost to the element type of both nodes (a newly created adept on a death-fire node would be able to cast scorch, and summon skeleton) or (B) ley-lines should provide mana of the node type to owners of each node (if Hyborem owns a fire node, and Perpentach owns a chaos node, and those nodes are linked by a ley-line, both hyborem and perpentach would have access to the chaos and fire mana from those nodes). (B is probably a little stronger than A, but would probably also be easier to code in)
I suggest that building an elemental node on a raw node, or pillaging a node should disrupt the ley-lines to that node for a certain (variable?) number of turns, somewhere in the range of 5-20(modified by game speed). To this end, I suggest that any type of mana improvement should be buildable on any type of node, as disrupting the ley-lines is a built-in penalty. (and remember ley-lines would start to reappear 5-20 turns after the improvement is finished)
I suggest that ley-lines should be completely unaffected by cultural borders. A Bannor adept should get the ley-line channeling bonus if he's standing in home territory, Infernal territory, or unclaimed wilderness -- so long as he's actually on a ley-line.
Tech-wise, I'd place it on about the same tier as Arcane Lore, or Strength of Will, but requiring alteration and either summoning or divination.

Of course, other ideas are welcome. Especially from the FFH2 design crew, but if you aren't on the design crew, try to stick to the flavor points, at least.

 

[QES]

Should'nt ley-lines be something more akin to a river? I mean if they're natural, and I like the idea that they are, then they're flow would be natural?

Perhaps this is a feature that should be "Hidden" until a technology comes along to reveal it. Thes "riveresque" features would then enhance adjacent tiles, and any/all mana nodes they cross. But again, they're hidden until X tech, so it'd be hard to plan for them.

-Qes

 

[upthorn]

Water flows in meandering streams because it is subject to friction, gravity, etc.
Mana flows in straight lines because it isn't.

But the straight lines thing is something which varies from fantasy world to fantasy world, so the "river-like" thing might be good.