Longbow and swordman in the modern era
- Thread starter johanbtk
- Start date
Cartouche Bee
Appropriations Consultant
I think they are provided as recreational units. 
This has got to be one of the things I find most frustrating in the game. Surely the City Governers could have had scroll-down menus for each individual unit, instead of just the generalised unit type i.e. Offensive Ground Units and the rest. It would certainly clear the clutter out from the production boxes and save a lot of time scrolling through obselete units.
I guess you could call a Privateer in the Modern Age a recreational unit. Anyone need a pleasure boat!
I guess you could call a Privateer in the Modern Age a recreational unit. Anyone need a pleasure boat!
Gothmog
Dread Enforcer
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2002
- Messages
- 3,352
I think it may also have to do with resources. Longbowmen don't take any and swords only take iron. You may need these until rifles come along. Also in PTW I think swords are replaced by MI in the medieval era, then by guerilla in the industrial.
cracker
Gil Favor's Sidekick
Do not take this comment in the wrong way because it is only intended to focus on the technical issue of the swordsman/longbow obsolesence request.
Many people how complain that this bothers them and ask for an upgrade that makes the 30 shield units and the 40 shield unit obsolete, really do fail to understand the role these cost points fill in later stages of gameplay. Yes, they look like swordman and longbows but the serve a variety of modern support roles like military police, border patrol, crowd control, etc.
There should be units that the cost the same but perform more modern versions of these roles but just asking for upgrades to the 30 shield units and 40 shield units without understanding the bigger picture issues will really hurt the game play. This is one of the negative features of the PTW upgrade paths that eliminate the swordsman from the game without providing a functional replacement option.
Here is the link to the original thread where these issues were discussed in the General Forum even though many posters continued to miss the major point of the discussion.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36143
Many people how complain that this bothers them and ask for an upgrade that makes the 30 shield units and the 40 shield unit obsolete, really do fail to understand the role these cost points fill in later stages of gameplay. Yes, they look like swordman and longbows but the serve a variety of modern support roles like military police, border patrol, crowd control, etc.
There should be units that the cost the same but perform more modern versions of these roles but just asking for upgrades to the 30 shield units and 40 shield units without understanding the bigger picture issues will really hurt the game play. This is one of the negative features of the PTW upgrade paths that eliminate the swordsman from the game without providing a functional replacement option.
Here is the link to the original thread where these issues were discussed in the General Forum even though many posters continued to miss the major point of the discussion.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36143
They shoulda just made a modern "cop" unit. Make it like 4/4 and 40 shields. Isn't there an option in the editor make a unit count double for MP duty? Maybe I'm nuts... it could be like 50 shields with that ability. It would still be cost effective.... and don't forget the support issue (if you needed lots of em').
SirJethro
Paterfamilias
cracker....just to clarify. Please don't confuse disagreement as missing the major point of the discussion. What you call a strategy, I call a game-flaw and somewhat exploitive. I think PTW addressed that by eliminating your 30 shield units.
I and others understood you point. We disagreed with it. Understand....that can happen on occasion.
cracker
Gil Favor's Sidekick
Jir Jethro,
We'll have to agree to disagree on many points.
PTW was not designed to fix any major gameplay or strategy issues at any level. Most of the new features are designed to expand the target market for the game to include a less intensive strategy set of game plays and more "instant grafication". Most if not all of the features that impact SP play in PTW are "throw 'em a bone"s that do nothing to fix the hardcoded blockages to strategic play in about 40 ares of the game.
Making the 30-40-50-60 shield unit gap even wider in the late game will not have much impact on the players that do not recognize the impact of integer shield waste. But then again, "If you don't see it, it must not be important. Right?"
We'll have to agree to disagree on many points.
PTW was not designed to fix any major gameplay or strategy issues at any level. Most of the new features are designed to expand the target market for the game to include a less intensive strategy set of game plays and more "instant grafication". Most if not all of the features that impact SP play in PTW are "throw 'em a bone"s that do nothing to fix the hardcoded blockages to strategic play in about 40 ares of the game.
Making the 30-40-50-60 shield unit gap even wider in the late game will not have much impact on the players that do not recognize the impact of integer shield waste. But then again, "If you don't see it, it must not be important. Right?"
Zachriel
Kaiser
Just changing its skin would be sufficient. Sword become Police, Longbow become Militia, or some such. This would not require upgrading the units. Even units in the wilderness would get the visual upgrade. It would look more realistic to have these units in the interior of your civilization, with infantry on the borderlands. They cost less to produce. In Communism, you would have your Police State, lots of cheap units partrolling the cities.
But that's for aesthetic reasons. I never build Swordsmen late in the game to act as Police. If they were to become obsolete, that would be fine too.
Also, giving non-upgraded Spearmen and other non-upgraded units a new skin in the Modern Age would eliminate most of the rants about "My Tank lost to a Spearman.
" Then it would be "My Tank lost to a National Guard. "
But that's for aesthetic reasons. I never build Swordsmen late in the game to act as Police. If they were to become obsolete, that would be fine too.
Also, giving non-upgraded Spearmen and other non-upgraded units a new skin in the Modern Age would eliminate most of the rants about "My Tank lost to a Spearman.
" Then it would be "My Tank lost to a National Guard. "Ninakoru
A deity on Emperor
Cracker is absolutely and completely RIGHT !
One little apreciation. Is not only shield waste because of no carry over posibility...
In my last game, i had some cities in middle of tundra, with no water in their citizen ratio.
They will remain at 2 population the rest of the game... At the late game one of them had a 2 shield production per turn. Lets see whay can I do with them in late game 80 turns before victory:
a) Make 5 regular police-swordman to free 5 of my MI on the old front line (my empire is advancing). I lose 10 shields on the 80 turns because of a swordman not being finished.
b) Maker a barrack and a super-wonderful veteran MA, with no shield waste!!
My solution: Swordmen change apearance and name in the industrial and modern eras, a little stat rise maybe, for desesperate situations... (a 5/5 1 movement unit for 30 shield in modern would be useless/usefull enough).
Please think about it. Its not so hard...
One little apreciation. Is not only shield waste because of no carry over posibility...
In my last game, i had some cities in middle of tundra, with no water in their citizen ratio.
They will remain at 2 population the rest of the game... At the late game one of them had a 2 shield production per turn. Lets see whay can I do with them in late game 80 turns before victory:
a) Make 5 regular police-swordman to free 5 of my MI on the old front line (my empire is advancing
). I lose 10 shields on the 80 turns because of a swordman not being finished.b) Maker a barrack and a super-wonderful veteran MA, with no shield waste!!
My solution: Swordmen change apearance and name in the industrial and modern eras, a little stat rise maybe, for desesperate situations... (a 5/5 1 movement unit for 30 shield in modern would be useless/usefull enough).
Please think about it. Its not so hard...
Globetrotter
...wherever i may roam...
Or at least create a new cheap unit as Police as suggested above, that appears with the discovery of communism, and that can only be built in cities with police stations, etc.
Ossric
Hedonistic Ruler
when a certain civ lost most strategic resourses like aliminium,saltpeter, oil,coal & swordsmen, knights, longbowmen would be obsolete... this civ would be in major problems!!! They wouldn't be able to built any units anymore!! (i think..or could they built riflemen??) Anyway if the civ is left to 3 cities with size 1, they can't built modern armor because the cost is to high. They fight with everything they can get there hands on like kitchen knifes etc. hence the swordmen
When you wage war with a nation, you can put them back into the stone age like in afganistan, but they could trade for weapons. (which is not possible in civ3)
When you wage war with a nation, you can put them back into the stone age like in afganistan, but they could trade for weapons. (which is not possible in civ3)
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