Making Trade matter again!

anbeck

Chieftain
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
22
Hi there,

one of the most disappointing parts of Civ V is the trade/economy system. I think it would really be cool to have a Mod that would make this matter again.

You cannot tell the history of any empire without trade, so its relative low importance in Civ V not only makes the game less interesting and more static, more importantly it misses the one huge factor in empire-building, empire-maintenance and the fall of empires: trade! Especially late in the game, being successfully woven into a global economy should be important for all economies (except those with mercantilist policy): either because you run the global economy (think pax americana) or because you are exploited by it (think Latin America), or because you know how to use it for your own development (think Taiwan).

Also in the earlier phases, commerce should be more important. Think Catharge for early or the Dutch for later eras. And a more detailed trade system would also allow a different kind of empire (British) where you do not depend on land combat so much, but with an economy depending on you actually securing the sea trade routes. In Civ V I did not have a lot of incentives to control the 7 seas, simply because trade routes do not exist in a detailed fashion.

The way you interact (or the way you don't interact!) with the world economy (which is only part of your own making) should also feed back on your society (happiness, but also a lot more than that).

Of course, this should go hand in hand with a major overhaul of the commerce social policies. It might go as far as enabling an "Economic Victory", although I yet have to figure out the exact victory conditions (maybe find a way to measure if all remaining Civs depend on your economy?).
And once industrialization kicks off, you might need to import food and/or export commodities, for which you don't have a market or for which your market is saturated.
So you either have some colonies, friendly city states, or less developed civs to make use of some international division of labor. Or if you are technologically behind, you need some rich countries to dump all your commodities (the way China is doing it now).

I am convinced that some of these ideas could be introduced without making the game more complex or time consuming.

Are there any mods that go into this direction that I am not aware of? Or is anybody working on something like that?
 
Are there any mods that go into this direction that I am not aware of? Or is anybody working on something like that?

Short answer: No.

Long answer: Noooooooooooooooooooooooo.

Real answer: It's the same answer as anything else. As much as we might like to do things like this, the game just isn't structured for those sorts of fundamental changes. Once we get the DLL SDK I'm sure someone will be able to add a more detailed trade system, just like there are plans for more detailed city-states, religions, etc. in the works. But until then, you can only make minor changes stick.

Even if it were possible in the current environment to create these sorts of trades, the simple fact is that the AI would have no clue how to deal with it. It wouldn't know when to make an offer and when not to, and while you could tie effects to these, the AI wouldn't understand that the effect was tied to a cause.
For instance, let's say I change the Bonus resources into Strategics, but instead of using them for units we instead use a Lua function to award a player bonus food in every city based on how many of these it has. Sounds good, right? The problem is that the AI would have absolutely no idea why it was gaining that food, so it wouldn't really value the resources correctly when it made trades. You can tweak this somewhat with Flavor values, but it's still not the same. (In my own mod, I have a strategic that also counts as a Luxury, so in theory it should be valued far more in trades than a normal resource of either type. In practice, the AI doesn't seem to care.)

Nearly every idea people have proposed recently falls into this same basic category. One idea was to give +1 happiness for each extra copy of a Luxury you have, another was to give gold for each unused unit of a Strategic (effectively adding an extra gold maintenance cost to units that require resources). Good ideas, but there's no way the AI would be able to handle them.
 
Ah, thanks for the explanation. You said "once we get DLL SDK"... is it certain that we'll get it, or is it the modding community's wish? :)
 
is it certain that we'll get it, or is it the modding community's wish? :)

It's certain that we'll get it, it's just a question of when. The devs, obviously, want to wait until the base game is "finished", or at least a bit more stable than it is now; the DLL is changing significantly each time they patch.

Civ4's DLL wasn't released until well after release, and that game was considerably more stable at release than Civ5 was. So while we should expect to get it fairly soon, there's really no indication of exactly when; considering how large the official patches continue to be, I'd expect the full SDK to only be released once that stops happening.
 
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