Massively strong island civs
- Thread starter Dezzilisk
- Start date
Chiming in that LordJacky's method is a bad idea. As for the 3-civ continent, you're in better luck. Get the civs to war amongst themselves and you'll be able to land easily. It's always the 1-civ islands that are the toughest to bust because that civ has been producing troops for forever, and not using a single one. The only good side is that the civ is likely to be behind technologically. A 1-civ island where the civ is at your level technologically is going to be a total bear to invade.
bustedsynapses
Chieftain
I can't believe what I'm reading. You guys actually lose tons of units? You're doing something wrong.
First, bring a ton of whatever passes for arty. In the situ above, I'd bring about 1/3 arty with a large force. The AI takes into account the arty when determining the odds. Make sure you have a defensive Army. The arty boosts its defense beyond attacking. Bring a stack of workers and build a fort instantly where you plan to defend. Keep the transports handy, to pull out damaged units and to bring in replacements. The AI will keep units nearby, and you have to sortie to slay them. The best location for landing is a hill next another hill. The AI will always move next to you onto a hill, and you can slay them with extensive arty and fast units, then move the damaged fast units back onto the transport to go get healed. Eventually, you will whittle his forces down, and your troops will gain tons of experience. Put your back to a corner of the ring, and punch him as he comes in, then cover up. Punch then cover up. Repeat as necessary. Don't be tempted to abandon this tactic too soon, and attack, as AI may have more units left than you think.
This strategy won't work well against stealth attack units, as they can avoid your tough units, and pick on weaker units. It's also not real functional if the reinforcers and healing are at a great distance. The military laws of space, distance, and force apply.
First, bring a ton of whatever passes for arty. In the situ above, I'd bring about 1/3 arty with a large force. The AI takes into account the arty when determining the odds. Make sure you have a defensive Army. The arty boosts its defense beyond attacking. Bring a stack of workers and build a fort instantly where you plan to defend. Keep the transports handy, to pull out damaged units and to bring in replacements. The AI will keep units nearby, and you have to sortie to slay them. The best location for landing is a hill next another hill. The AI will always move next to you onto a hill, and you can slay them with extensive arty and fast units, then move the damaged fast units back onto the transport to go get healed. Eventually, you will whittle his forces down, and your troops will gain tons of experience. Put your back to a corner of the ring, and punch him as he comes in, then cover up. Punch then cover up. Repeat as necessary. Don't be tempted to abandon this tactic too soon, and attack, as AI may have more units left than you think.
This strategy won't work well against stealth attack units, as they can avoid your tough units, and pick on weaker units. It's also not real functional if the reinforcers and healing are at a great distance. The military laws of space, distance, and force apply.
Well there are many ways to skin a cat, but invasions do not need arties. If you have enough transport to afford to bring all those arties, you probably should have gone sooner.
Of course, if you are playing at a level that offers so little opposition that you have all that stuff laying around, go ahead and bring it. Invasions are often made with little in the way of extras. IOW I am not going to have lots of ships to bring all my units and all sorts of arties.
This means something stays behind and it has to be arties as they cannot defend. No need to hang around endlessly trying to ping units down and attack them piecemeal.
Just found a town and the AI will attack you withl all its attackers. This lets you kill off massive numbers in short order. I will bring arties on the second wave.
The truth is, you are making many of your invasions way before you have transports or arties.
Of course, if you are playing at a level that offers so little opposition that you have all that stuff laying around, go ahead and bring it. Invasions are often made with little in the way of extras. IOW I am not going to have lots of ships to bring all my units and all sorts of arties.
This means something stays behind and it has to be arties as they cannot defend. No need to hang around endlessly trying to ping units down and attack them piecemeal.
Just found a town and the AI will attack you withl all its attackers. This lets you kill off massive numbers in short order. I will bring arties on the second wave.
The truth is, you are making many of your invasions way before you have transports or arties.
bustedsynapses
Chieftain
Nifty. I never thought of founding a town to do the rope-a-dope thing!
Regarding amount of transports, I don't land a small force when I invade. Do I look like an AI? Land an Army with arty of some kind. Landing 'em on a hill next to the target city is perfect. Bring in workers to build a fort. Then bring in other units. One more time, arty does too defend! The AI takes them into account when deciding whether to attack. I've tested it. Save a situation before AI attacks dug in unit. If it attacks, reload and add some kind of bombard unit. Oh, look, sometimes it won't attack!
At the opening of the thread, the guy was complaining that the defenders were cleaning his clock, and he intimated having landed a fairly good-size force. It didn't work. I'm suggesting an alternative force mix that has worked for me in the past. Someone else expressed similar views in reply as well. I just added the idea of workers.
Regarding amount of transports, I don't land a small force when I invade. Do I look like an AI? Land an Army with arty of some kind. Landing 'em on a hill next to the target city is perfect. Bring in workers to build a fort. Then bring in other units. One more time, arty does too defend! The AI takes them into account when deciding whether to attack. I've tested it. Save a situation before AI attacks dug in unit. If it attacks, reload and add some kind of bombard unit. Oh, look, sometimes it won't attack!
At the opening of the thread, the guy was complaining that the defenders were cleaning his clock, and he intimated having landed a fairly good-size force. It didn't work. I'm suggesting an alternative force mix that has worked for me in the past. Someone else expressed similar views in reply as well. I just added the idea of workers.
Well I never saw and arty defend against an attacker. They just get captured or destroyed (remember if they do not have the tech, they cannot capture it).
Like I said, waiting to build all that stuff is costing you time. You are not going to have that time in a tougher game. I see no need to build forts, that is just wasting a worker and I am not bringing them along for that.
I may bring one to build an airfield late in the game, but by then I have enough shipping.
I have invaded Sid civs using galleys and I cannot sit around trying to build up enough to bring frills like bombardment units.
I don't know what you mean by reload, unless you mean cheating and loading the game again. I see no reason to do that stuff either.
Basically I have two modes to take down a civ. First is like I mentioned. I bring as many units as I can and one or more armies. These are defensive if it is prior to cavs as I need to be able to survive many attacks. I have gone with pike armies.
I bring a settler to found a town and then rush a rax or a wall. Next turn rush the other one. By then the AI has started to attack.
The other means is to land a force to attack directly, this is not a good prospect VS a Sid AI, but works on DG or lower. You just do not have enough units to take down Sid towns as a rule. You need to thin them some with a beachhead town. I often run into more than 100 units in a single Sid city.
IIRC that game was some sort of mod and is not relevant to normal games. I have with stood many invasions being attacked my many hundreds of units in a single turn with just 30 to 40 units and no arties.
If you have a few armies and get that rax up, then all surviving units are fully healed each turn. You tend to get some leaders and can make additional armies and once the main thrust is spent, you go on the attack.
Late game, I may us other tactics such as trapping large stacks within armies, so they will stay put, till I eliminate the civ and they go poof.
Like I said, waiting to build all that stuff is costing you time. You are not going to have that time in a tougher game. I see no need to build forts, that is just wasting a worker and I am not bringing them along for that.
I may bring one to build an airfield late in the game, but by then I have enough shipping.
I have invaded Sid civs using galleys and I cannot sit around trying to build up enough to bring frills like bombardment units.
I don't know what you mean by reload, unless you mean cheating and loading the game again. I see no reason to do that stuff either.
Basically I have two modes to take down a civ. First is like I mentioned. I bring as many units as I can and one or more armies. These are defensive if it is prior to cavs as I need to be able to survive many attacks. I have gone with pike armies.
I bring a settler to found a town and then rush a rax or a wall. Next turn rush the other one. By then the AI has started to attack.
The other means is to land a force to attack directly, this is not a good prospect VS a Sid AI, but works on DG or lower. You just do not have enough units to take down Sid towns as a rule. You need to thin them some with a beachhead town. I often run into more than 100 units in a single Sid city.
IIRC that game was some sort of mod and is not relevant to normal games. I have with stood many invasions being attacked my many hundreds of units in a single turn with just 30 to 40 units and no arties.
If you have a few armies and get that rax up, then all surviving units are fully healed each turn. You tend to get some leaders and can make additional armies and once the main thrust is spent, you go on the attack.
Late game, I may us other tactics such as trapping large stacks within armies, so they will stay put, till I eliminate the civ and they go poof.
I haven't played for over a year but still have some memory of how to take on an AI infested island.
If speed isn't too important, land about 50 defensive troops (eg pike/muskets) on a hill/mountain, and fortify the position. Don't build a town as it might flip. Then use filled armies (eg knights/cav) to despoil the area and capture cities. Other troops can hide under the armies and help. You do need the big coastal stack with no army though, as otherwise the AI will attack and kill your armies. The AI won't attack an army if there is another unit on the island they can attack instead.
This technique worked fine in an AW sid game, so I believe it to be pretty solid, if slow. It can be scaled down at deity, and is clearly overkill below this. If you allow yourself to make peace deals life can get a bit easier. Eventually you will have many armies which helps a lot.
If speed isn't too important, land about 50 defensive troops (eg pike/muskets) on a hill/mountain, and fortify the position. Don't build a town as it might flip. Then use filled armies (eg knights/cav) to despoil the area and capture cities. Other troops can hide under the armies and help. You do need the big coastal stack with no army though, as otherwise the AI will attack and kill your armies. The AI won't attack an army if there is another unit on the island they can attack instead.
This technique worked fine in an AW sid game, so I believe it to be pretty solid, if slow. It can be scaled down at deity, and is clearly overkill below this. If you allow yourself to make peace deals life can get a bit easier. Eventually you will have many armies which helps a lot.
D0NIMATRIX
Full of drivel
@Lordjacky
How long do you spend preparing that? It makes me dizzy just thinking about it.
How long do you spend preparing that? It makes me dizzy just thinking about it.
had a similar thing, but early middle ages, land on a hill with 7pikes and a settler
second wave is half replacement pikes and half horses, then some longbows and you are ready to defend while they lose all their troops
second wave is half replacement pikes and half horses, then some longbows and you are ready to defend while they lose all their troops
Lexicus
Deity
That probably wouldn't work on Regent, let alone a higher difficulty level. (Not that I play on a higher difficulty level 
)
My strategy to invade an island is pretty simple. Land an army covering a SoD. Then use the army to cover the SoD (complete with artillery) and take or raze all their cities.
That won't work very well above Monarch. On Monarch, I thin I could get away with it.
)My strategy to invade an island is pretty simple. Land an army covering a SoD. Then use the army to cover the SoD (complete with artillery) and take or raze all their cities.
That won't work very well above Monarch. On Monarch, I thin I could get away with it.
I can count on one finger the number of sid island games i played out to completion. since sid games are such huge commitment i'm asking this question. when will my fully healed modern armor army get attacked? I'll give some scenarios. assume a sid game invading one of these tough islands. Does my army get attacked or not?
1) I'm at war and I land one army and let it sit there. does it get attacked?
2) Same as (1) except I put a weak non-army unit on the same tile.
3) Same as (1) but I put a weak non-army unit on a different tile that the ai cannot reach because it's blocked by the army.
4) Like (3), but instead of a weak unit that the ai cannot reach it is a new city that the ai cannot reach.
5) I land an army and a settler. I declare war and found a city. My army is on the city. No other units. Will the army be attacked.
6) I found a city and surround it by armies. The ai cannot reach my city. The city is full of artillery. Will the ai be so kind as to at least move its units next to my armies so i can shell them with my artillery and do a bit of leader fishing?
1) I'm at war and I land one army and let it sit there. does it get attacked?
2) Same as (1) except I put a weak non-army unit on the same tile.
3) Same as (1) but I put a weak non-army unit on a different tile that the ai cannot reach because it's blocked by the army.
4) Like (3), but instead of a weak unit that the ai cannot reach it is a new city that the ai cannot reach.
5) I land an army and a settler. I declare war and found a city. My army is on the city. No other units. Will the army be attacked.
6) I found a city and surround it by armies. The ai cannot reach my city. The city is full of artillery. Will the ai be so kind as to at least move its units next to my armies so i can shell them with my artillery and do a bit of leader fishing?
I think the answers are:
1 yes
2 yes
3 no, the AI will try to go around the army instead. If there is no possible way around I'm not sure. It is very good to leave a weak unit that the AI can get to, but not until next turn. That unit can hide next turn and the process repeated with another unreachable weak unit. The AI find these units very tempting and will severely deplete their city garrissons to attack them.
4 I think this is like 3
5 yes
6 as for 3, I'm not sure what the AI will do if there isn't a way through. A corridor of armies funnelling the AI towards a target they can't quite reach is a ploy which can reap rewards (see SirPlebs HOF game). You can keep a vast hoard of AI bottled up this way while you farm leaders etc.
In general the AI won't attack an army if there is something else on the same island they can attack. An army on its own WILL be attacked.
Leaving things until modern armour is very late.
I suggested modern armor mostly so that we wouldn't get sidetracked by statements such as "well it depends on the defense rating of your army" and so on 
I am extremely interested in the situation of the planted city surrounded by armies. In the case of a narrow peninsula it may only require a single army to block the city. This would allow the invasion of a powerful ai with a rather pathetic landing force as long as the player has even a single army. Of course we are assuming here no ai bombers. While the island couldn't be conquered with just one army, it would allow for endless leader fishing until the player is strong enough - well, at least as long as the ai is willing to send its units close enough.
I am extremely interested in the situation of the planted city surrounded by armies. In the case of a narrow peninsula it may only require a single army to block the city. This would allow the invasion of a powerful ai with a rather pathetic landing force as long as the player has even a single army. Of course we are assuming here no ai bombers. While the island couldn't be conquered with just one army, it would allow for endless leader fishing until the player is strong enough - well, at least as long as the ai is willing to send its units close enough.
Civfan333
full metal alchemist
It's weird, some island civs i've seen (this was a foolish game on monarch)
They had like thirty units in every city, I was like what the ************************************************* happened here!!!?!?!?!?!?
They had like thirty units in every city, I was like what the ************************************************* happened here!!!?!?!?!?!?
D0NIMATRIX
Full of drivel
AIs stuck on islands will finish most buildings and will then proceed to build massive armies, and yet never attempt to go off their island. They never have the brains to build wealth.
Light-Giver
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2007
- Messages
- 221
I love to invade with alot of defencive units, the best you can get, also land as many paratrupers as posible on the island, hope some survive and have them cut their roads, this will slow them from massing up but its realy all about who can mass the most troups at the battle area, dont attack in waves attack all at once and land them all in 1 turn not 2 or 3, pick the best defencive spot too to do the invasion and if they survive take a city.
another way to do the mass attack is to
1.) send paratrupers to cut the roads
2.) send a fake invasion on the other side of the island you want to attack away from their citys
3.) after that invasion is repeled send the real invasion on the otherside.
This will inshure you get a few citys then you can get a peace agreement fast.
O i just thought of something
instead of a fake invasion i just sent a ton of frigites to bombard a city on the other side of the island, then i sent the fleet of frigites and gallions to the otherside and invaded with a bunch of knight templares and defencive unites.
If your realy stuck with them when they mass a huge army send 2 icbm's at it and it will kill all regular and vetran units only the eliet will survive with 1 health, very easy targets.
another way to do the mass attack is to
1.) send paratrupers to cut the roads
2.) send a fake invasion on the other side of the island you want to attack away from their citys
3.) after that invasion is repeled send the real invasion on the otherside.
This will inshure you get a few citys then you can get a peace agreement fast.
O i just thought of something
instead of a fake invasion i just sent a ton of frigites to bombard a city on the other side of the island, then i sent the fleet of frigites and gallions to the otherside and invaded with a bunch of knight templares and defencive unites.If your realy stuck with them when they mass a huge army send 2 icbm's at it and it will kill all regular and vetran units only the eliet will survive with 1 health, very easy targets.
That probably wouldn't work on Regent, let alone a higher difficulty level. (Not that I play on a higher difficulty level
My strategy to invade an island is pretty simple. Land an army covering a SoD. Then use the army to cover the SoD (complete with artillery) and take or raze all their cities.
That won't work very well above Monarch. On Monarch, I thin I could get away with it.
simply scale up the attack depending on how long the opposition has had to build up, i got in early so they couldn't build up too much. my city gave them something to kill their units with
another ploy would be to ally with whoever you plan on targeting next and hope that they both end up weakening each other enough for you to kill them both.
D0NIMATRIX
Full of drivel
Ahh, you gotta love treachery
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