Medieval "Goths" in William of Rubruck?

[Pangur Bán]

"Now from Kersona all the way to the mouth of the Tanais there are high promontories along the sea, and there are forty hamlets between Kersona and Soldaia, nearly every one of which has its own language; among them were many Goths, whose language is Teutonic". (William of Rubruck, The mission of Friar William of Rubruck : his journey to the court of the Great Khan Möngke, 1253-1255 )

NB: "Tanais" = The Don
"Kersona" = (I presume) Cherson, in the Crimea

This passge struck me as interesting. Does anyone know what William means by "Goths"? Is he talking about descendents of the ancient Goths, or just Germans who moved there is times recent to William's period?

 

[misterrat]

The Gothic language was spoken in the Crimea until the 16th - 18th century. The people speaking the language probably called themselves "Goths" (or something like that). I doubt that William knew Gothic.

In the fourth century the Goths (and other Germanic, Sarmatian, and Alans) were present along the Black Sea coast from the Danube to the Don. I haven't read anything about a large Gothic presence in the Crimea at the time of the arrival of the Huns, but that event would certainly be a good reason for some Goths to go where the Huns weren't. Like the Crimea.

"The last trace of living use of this Gothic language is found in the 16th century Crimea, among a tribal remnant whose speech was noted down by a Flemish ambassador to Constantinople. "
--- http://www.alsintl.com/languages/german.htm

 

[pawpaw]

when the huns arrived the goths were divided into 6 groups, the tetraxitae were in the cimmerian boisphorus and the dory in the sw mts of the crimea.

p.s. misterrat--1st post,welcome to cfc

 

[Pangur Bán]

Yeah, OK. But how do you suppose William knew they were Goths rather than simple Germans? Williiam himself was Flemish, thus he was "Germanic" so to speak. The word translated "Teutonic" is, I presume, the same medieval Latin word for often translated as "German".

 

[Djingis Khan]

The Goths that Willhelm incountered in the 1250's were the saxins, a remnant of the Ostrogoth realm in Ukraine

/DK M