Oceania

[Henri Christophe]

The last but not less important thread about geographical spots.
Now the Ocean floor is full of life and I make a poll about some civs I consider to the region.

First we need to decide if want to repeat the bloobing of Polynesia civ as made in civ5 with a leader of Hawaii as Kamehameha, an unique unit of Maori and unique improvement of Rapa Nui. Or if each of this civ deserve to be a separete civ by it's own right.

Also I want to discuss other civs as Australians aboriginals, I just now the name of Gunditjmara said by Fishfishfish in other thread.
The other option of aboriginal people is Truganini, she is the last survivor of Tasmanian people and I guess they can lead all Tasmanian nowadays cities.

Other interesting civ is Tonga, not the biggest empire on earth but should be cool to add more life in the ocean.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

There shouldn't be any blobbing of all Polynesian cultures again.
If I had to choose a Polynesian culture to get I'd pick Samoa. Queen Salamasina also ruled over a "golden cultural age" where there was no warfare on the islands.
But honestly if not Samoa, then any other group Tonga, Hawaii, even the Maori again will do.

I also would love Australia back.

 

[BuchiTaton]

With all respect to the peoples of Oceania the whole region could be covered with one civ, for me Tonga is the best one being an actual oceanic empire.
- Maori or Hawaii are overshadow both in history and game design by Tonga. Maori were fragmented in fratricide wars and Hawaii kingdom was minuscule, while Tonga actually had control over long distances of sea and bigger populations.
- Australia and New Zealand are very recent British split-off. If should be an Anglo immigration and conquest of the frontier civ that role is for his big brother America that actually fought for independence.
- Aboriginals barely reached early agriculture and their traditions are againts their representation. By the way why nobody talk about peoples from Papua they actualy could be more fitting than aboriginals and less redundant than another anglo and polynesian civ.

Even better lest have things like Malay and Tagalo civs.

 

[bene_legionary]

A Malayan civ is interesting but would be too much like Indonesia... but what about a Malagasy civ? Not in the same area, but mostly the same people, and Madagascar might be interesting to explore. I think Tonga is a pretty good choice. Papua has a lot of cultures and not many cities.

The Maori had some settlements but they're quite warlike and destructive (until the British, who were more warlike and destructive, came around) and in fact I wouldn't have batted an eye if the Maori were actually called Polynesia, because the start really fits Polynesia better. Dunno who you'd call the leader though, and I think Maui is a bad choice.

New Zealand by itself is pretty boring but that didn't stop Canada from being in the game. New Zealand is pretty much island Canada.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

The Maori had some settlements but they're quite warlike and destructive (until the British, who were more warlike and destructive, came around) and in fact I wouldn't have batted an eye if the Maori were actually called Polynesia, because the start really fits Polynesia better. Dunno who you'd call the leader though, and I think Maui is a bad choice.

I mean the Māori are still Polynesian, even if they are the ones that did the least wayfinding.

Besides how else would they have found present-day New Zealand?

 

[Henri Christophe]

There shouldn't be any blobbing of all Polynesian cultures again.

I like the blobbing of Polynesia because we had 3 great civilizations of Oceania summerized in one. I mean, Hawaii, Maori and Rapa Nui all together.

If I had to choose a Polynesian culture to get I'd pick Samoa. Queen Salamasina also ruled over a "golden cultural age" where there was no warfare on the islands.

I never heard about her before, look likes cool.

With all respect to the peoples of Oceania the whole region could be covered with one civ, for me Tonga is the best one being an actual oceanic empire.

I'm not agree one is enought, but I agree Tonga being a great representante of the Ocean culture, but who should be it leaders? And it's Unique Units and Unique improvement?

New Zealand by itself is pretty boring but that didn't stop Canada from being in the game. New Zealand is pretty much island Canada.

Please New Zealand not, I think it will be better represented by Maoris. I'm not a fan of post colonial civs and think Okay to have Australia, but New Zealand is too much

 

[awesome]

The Māori should definitely be in the game, but as an ancient or classical land based civilization that might have some kind of coast bonus, or something at most
As for Tonga, I could see them going for Queen Salote III

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I like the blobbing of Polynesia because we had 3 great civilizations of Oceania summerized in one. I mean, Hawaii, Maori and Rapa Nui all together.

In that case why not keep India together, or better yet bring the Native Americans back because they represented all the tribes of North America at once?

The Māori should definitely be in the game, but as an ancient or classical land based civilization that might have some kind of coast bonus, or something at most
As for Tonga, I could see them going for Queen Salote III

I think a land based Māori civ alongside another ocean exploring Polynesian culture would be interesting. If everywhere else in the world had some sort of representation I could be on board with a second one appearing.

 

[Henri Christophe]

In that case why not keep India together, or better yet bring the Native Americans back because they represented all the tribes of North America at once?

I think it's very different Polynesia bloob than North America bloob. Since all polynesians share a same family language it is as Maya bloob or Celtic bloob who was never united in a single empire but appear in civilization as one single civ.
If it is to have a Native American bloob it should come under the leadership of Tecumseh who lead not just the Shawnee but also lead Ojibwe, Wyandots, Fox, Sauk, Odawas, Kickapoos, Lenape, Miami, Seneca, Onondaga and Delawares during the 1812 war.
Other option to have a bloob of Native Americans is doing the Lakota tribe, who was a mix of various native americans including the Sioux.

But if civ7 having more than one civ from Oceania it is no need to bloob again all polynesians, but I will still want to see they with a start bias in the middle of ocean as Maori in Civ6.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I think it's very different Polynesia bloob than North America bloob. Since all polynesians share a same family language it is as Maya bloob or Celtic bloob who was never united in a single empire but appear in civilization as one single civ.
If it is to have a Native American bloob it should come under the leadership of Tecumseh who lead not just the Shawnee but also lead Ojibwe, Wyandots, Fox, Sauk, Odawas, Kickapoos, Lenape, Miami, Seneca, Onondaga and Delawares during the 1812 war.
Other option to have a bloob of Native Americans is doing the Lakota tribe, who was a mix of various native americans including the Sioux.

But who would lead it? Even if they had similar languages or not they were all separate kingdoms, which is why they need to be separate civs. And yeah the same thing goes for the Celts, especially after the Civ 5's horrible iteration.

It doesn't make any sense to go back to having a Hawaiin leader, with a Māori unit and Rapa Nui infrastructure. The closest thing to a "Polynesian blob" I'd like to see is the Tonga, who unified a lot of Polynesia with their "empire," but it still shouldn't be called Polynesia but the Tonga.

 

[FishFishFish]

but who should be it leaders? And it's Unique Units

Probably some semi-mythical Tuʻi Tonga king like ʻAhoʻeitu or Tuʻitātui.

Unique unit could be the Tongiaki.