OSG7a Always War Hard -- Once more, with feeling!

Zed-F

Emperor
Joined
Dec 25, 2001
Messages
1,776
Our last attempt at this game wound up as a total cakewalk, as you can read about here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=147051

Fortunately I had generated two starts, so this time we will pick the harder of the two and see if that makes the game more like what we might expect from an always war game. Here's the start picture:

osg7_2300ad_map1.JPG


----------------------------------------
Always War Hard

Race: Mrrshan
Difficulty: Hard
Size: Medium
Opponents: 5
Colour: Red
Minimum Victory: Extermination!

Variant Rules
Spirit of the Rules: Always act as if we are at war with all races, even if they have not formally declared war.
* May never form any long-term treaty or trade agreement, including peace treaty
* May never offer tribute
* Must always have at least one tick of spying per race contacted; spies may not hide.
* Must always vote for ourselves in council, but may not accept a council win (or loss.) If we can't vote for ourselves, we abstain.
* Must always have at least a token force attacking any AI with whom we have contact. If we haven't met anyone yet, there's no reason to be on a war footing. Send scouts to scout AI worlds, use battle scanners to gather intelligence on AI ship/base designs, and otherwise keep tabs on enemy fleets & planetary defenses if you don't have an attack fleet on hand!
----------------------------------------
Note that you don't actually get relations penalties for using ships to harass an AI race you don't have contact with.

Lineup: I put vmxa next this time since he didn't get a turn last time.

Zed-F << 30 turns
vmxa < 20 turns
Maniac < 10 turns thereafter
catwalk
dathon

My turns:

I spend my 30 turns quietly building up in our backyard. We don't even so much as see a scout from any of the AI races. I manage to get a colony ship out the door and research Terraforming +10, and that's about it. We just founded Xudax and Dunatis is about to send 20 pop there to get it stood up. We might think about backfilling our homeworld in the near future too as it's remaxing after terraforming. We are slowly researching IIT9, Hydrogen Fuel Cells, and Tundra bases. There's a pair of Tundra worlds to our west we'll need to settle if we want to have a hope of breaking out of our corner.

osg7_2330ad_map1.JPG


Note there is one unscouted star within range 3. That's Orion. Don't go there. :) Also note there are 2 yellow stars at about range 7 from our new colony. It's possible that one or both is an AI homeworld, though as I haven't seen any scouts, it seems somewhat unlikely. Then again, we don't have any decent scanners yet. Otherwise there are a bunch of stars at range 7 we can try to scout when Hydrogen Fuel Cells come in. I parked our spare scouts at our new colony.

osg7_2330ad._map2.JPG


And here's the save file: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/OSG7_2330ad_SAVE31.zip
 
I'm here..
 
I'm out for this one, Utopia (that nasty online game that has possessed my soul) is keeping me busy and I'm having trouble getting my turns done here in a reasonable amount of time while writing a half-way decent report.
 
Ok I downloaded it and will get it doen tonight after my late dinner. May have to wait till quite late, but will finish it.
 
Check me out here Zed, the save is labeled 30ad, sounds like civ. Anyway the one I have is 2300. I was looking at a yellow at 2 and 3 parsecs and wondering about what you said on Orion. I then realize no ships had been sent out, so I checked the start date.

Dinner has yet to be surved. So I figure I would take a peek.
 
I'm making progress on the other side of the street :) Check it out in your spare time. Somone can even take a turn if they want while im at dinner. :)
 
Ok, a little late, so I will finish in the AM. Just got to 2343 so far.

Yeah this is a much uglier game. I am not sure I understand all the rules.
"May never form a long term treaty", ok but if we are to act as if we are at war, we can't form any treaties at all? Well peace, but that is a no no already.

Not sure why we can't abstain, but ok. I mean I often have war with everyone and abstain.

The last two rules seem to conflict, so am not sure what I should be doing.

"* Must always have at least a token force attacking any AI with whom we have contact. If we haven't met anyone yet, there's no reason to be on a war footing. Send scouts to scout AI worlds, use battle scanners to gather intelligence on AI ship/base designs, and otherwise keep tabs on enemy fleets & planetary defenses if you don't have an attack fleet on hand!
----------------------------------------
Note that you don't actually get relations penalties for using ships to harass an AI race you don't have contact with."
 
So what I am not sure about on those last two is, should I keep sending scouts back to the planet or not? So far I have and I am sure we are going to be hearing from the Klac real soon. No offical contact as of now, but I found Kholden nearby.

2331: send 15 from Dunatis to Xudax
2332: zero
2333: Dunatis 5 to Xudax
2334: 11BC to Xudox

2335: drop a click on ECO on Fieras as it was at max factories and not adding pop each turn.
14BC to Xudax (40/50 and 5 coming)

2336: Range 4 comes in and we have only Range 5
Send out 5 scouts from Xudax (1 free left)

Looks like Mrrs are Avg on Comp/Force/Planet/Prop, Poor on Const (125%) and excellent on Weapons (60%). So Tundra cost 35*36 or about 1260.
Force/Planet/Prop bulbs are different levels, so it is hard to judge how much has accumulated. Looks like about 30% or appx 378.

Move 4 clicks from Prop to Weapons. The 15% interest or there abouts should cover that +.

2337: Weapons choices are Hand Laser (60), Hyper-V (330) and Gatling.
I take the cheap one for now as we should get it fast at 60%.
Endora (not really scouted) finds 8 Cutlas KLacs)

2338: Endora 7 Cutlass and is now founded by Klacs (ugh)

2339: Move some research from Const to Comps to get either a scanner or BC. I figure it won't be long before we have visitors at those Tundra's.

2340: Endora 3 colony 55 cutlass (double ugh)
Deep Scanners is the only item for Comps. Planetology 3%, Const 4%, Weapon bulb full.

2341: 4 cutlass now
2342: 5 cutlass, get msg that Humans have 6 planets, so the vote could get nasty. Bad rolls for research so far. 13%/10%/18%, not one break through.
I set research to equal at this point as I have hopes of a break or two.

2343: Klacs were sweating as they now have 5 bases, 176 Pelicans, 1 scout and 4 colony ships at Endora.
Scout gets to Kholden 8 bases 1 Knight (large).
Scout at Hyades 1 large Hareeagle.
Force shows Class II deflectors only.
Jinga Inferno 35 (Alk scout
Vega Radiated 25 Rich (Alk scout
Last free scout is out to the onlyother star in range. Tech still not being cooperative 18/11/32.

I have been sending ships back to any planet they were run off from so far, but that is going to be a problem soon. Klacs have two planets no more than 6 parsec out and they will be closer once we grab those Tundra's, if they don't beat us to them.

All in all it is not been a great spin to this point. It could get uglier real soon. We will need some weapons and ships and probably even those Hyper V's.
With I great research modifier for weapons we can get them quickly.

So I am past my bed time and with halt for now. Look for some input in the AM. My usual touch at reseach list prevails. Three so far with only 1 item and no early tech.
 
You post late last night, and then expect a reply by early the next morning? Geez, vmxa, can't a guy sleep at night? ;)

"May never form a long term treaty",
This means not anything that falls under the treaties section of the diplo dialogue. No "ask to declare war", no "peace treaty", no NAP or alliance, nada. (As well as no trade agreements.)

Not sure why we can't abstain, but ok. I mean I often have war with everyone and abstain.
Partly as a roleplaying thing (manifest destiny and all that) and partly to ensure (a) we tick off whoever our election opponent is and (b) that we eventually wind up in final war, once our voting block gets big enough, since we can't accept a vote win.

Must always have at least a token force attacking any AI with whom we have contact. If we haven't met anyone yet, there's no reason to be on a war footing. Send scouts to scout AI worlds, use battle scanners to gather intelligence on AI ship/base designs, and otherwise keep tabs on enemy fleets & planetary defenses if you don't have an attack fleet on hand!
You always need to have some ships harassing EVERY opponent. When we first make contact, you might not have an attack fleet built yet, but you might have scouts to pester them with while you build an attack fleet. If you have contact with more than one AI, even when you do have an attack fleet, it might be busy with one opponent AI, so use cheap scouts & scanners to harass the other(s). Sometimes you might get contact with an AI that's outside your fuel range (if they have more range than you); your attack fleet probably won't have extended fuel tanks, but you can easily have scouts and/or scanners that do and can reach that AI.

Pestering the AI with scouts will tick them off and get them to declare war, if you have contact. It will also let us track their fleet movements and scan their ships/bases if we have scanners. Scouts (incl. med ships with battle scanners and extended fuel tanks, but no weapons) are cheap and disposable; you can afford to build a few even if you need to spend most of your shipbuilding BCs elsewhere. Just send some into each AI's territory and bounce back and forth between their worlds. Of course, while you're doing that, building/using an attack fleet to actually take worlds would be a good idea too -- assuming our scouts/scanners/spies tell us this is feasible.

Makes more sense now?
 
Ok, I did keep the scouts on them, so I was doing the way the rules intended. I was not clear on if we were suppose to or not. I know it is going to make them made, so I figured that was what I should do.

The vote was just a nit. I understood that abstaining is more benign than voting for yourself, I just was not sure it matter enough to care. Most likely we will be at war before a vote anyway.

Sorry about the time. I did not know what time zones everyone was in. Some SG's have player on the other side of the world and could have someone awake at any given hour.

Anyway I finished and here comes the report of the last turns.
 
2344:
Construction comes in we have IIT8 (2800) and Duralloy (4370 if I can read my notes). Oh OH I did not note what I picked, but I think it was the armor.

Here I was thinking we will not be making a lot of factories right away. 8 over 9, not a big deal. We will found 2 tundra planets and all the other planets are either done or near done.

We may soon have visitor and needed defense and ships and the armor will be useful.

Weapons comes in. We have Hyper V (330), Gatling (520), NPG (1020), Hyper X (1340), Fusion Bomb (1700).

Again I did not underline what I picked in my notes? I am sure I went with Hyper V. This is going to be a quick one with any luck at al and we will want something better than nukes.

Hyades is an Ocean at size 80 already, no bases.

We get the news that techs is:

Human/Darlok/Sakkra/Klackon/Alkari and we bring up the rear.

2345: zero, if it was just me I would scrap the scouts here, if not sooner. It is a bit of a pain to keep sending them back to the planet the we run off of and we are probably not going to scout much unarmed from now on.

2346: finally tundra comes in. It was at 14% the previous turn.

We have Barren (310), Death (3500), Enhanced Eco (5910), +30 (6860), Toxic (7870).

Well ECo is the most useful, but itis so far away I take barren as it should not take long and then others can chime in on what should be taken.

Dunatis at max factories 99/105 pop.
13BC to Xudax. It is terraformming and making 6.6/y 50/50 pop.
Design a colony for tundra. I did not start a prebuild in an attempt to get the research out sooner. HW makes it in 5.

2347: zero
2348: zero
2349: Dunatis max pop and starts colony 5y.
2350: zero, reduced ship spending on HW comes in next year.
 
We have not scouted those planets actually and we have Orion due north and Inferno above that.
 
OK. Looks like im up everywhere at once! I''ll get to it. It's in queue.

- Maniac
 
I could have put up a new rooster, but not sure if that is out of line.

Zed-F (done
vmxa (done
Maniac (up now
catwalk (dropped out
dathon
 
Back
Top Bottom