Problem with Outside In

[tianx]

Just got Civ III recently and PTW. I have to say this game is much tougher than Civ II which I used to play LONG time ago so by the now, the basics already escaped me. I read bunch of threads on the forum and in the war academy. Thanx to all the good folks, I am doing much better now in the game than I had first started. But damn, I can hardly get pass Warlord level without getting my ass kicked. I used to do inside out but now I am working on outside in. There is one problem though with outside in that I don't know how to really get around. Since you have to move your settlers much further(how far did you xperts move them? next to the enemy borderline?), your initial development is much slower and it gets even worse since corruption in these area are rampant even if it's a good place for the city. This amounts to serious problem in Middle Age. I had huge territory but very little military protection because the land mass is so big. All kinds of problem starting from massive corruption, civil disorder and lack of treasury kicked in during Middle Age in addition to weak army. I could suppress my direct neighbor but the one next to him usually get ROP and invade me from my neighbor's territory(much like the Germans I guess). How do you guys get around that problem? Also, I find that scientifically advance isn't as a big deal as it used to be. You can pretty much lag behind a bit with much disadvantage. How much fund do u guys put into science research?? Wow, Long question, thanx for anyone who can help me

 

[Speaker]

Welcome to CFC Tianx! For early game I would highly recommend "Cracker's Opening Play Sequence" which can be found in the War Academy. Building from the outside in is not the most effective way to go for all the reasons you list. It is important to balance early growth with enough military to protect yourself. One of the biggest changes I have found from Civ2 to Civ3 is the importance of diplomacy. Where in Civ2 you would develop pretty much all of your own technology, in Civ3, it is important to trade techs for techs or to buy and sell techs. It makes it so you have to research that many fewer techs yourself. Good luck!

 

[shirleyrocks]

Great post tianx. Welcome to CFC. I found your post interesting because it reminded me of my development in learning the game. I started with the inside out expansion strategy and at some point I switched to outside in. Outside in has it's plusses but I quickly found that doesn't work mostly for the reasons you mention. So I switched back to a modified inside out strategy. I would first focus on building a ring of cities around my capital (if possible) that would form the heart of my civ. Once this core has been built, you should start to have a decent idea of what your landmass looks like, where the AI civs are and where resources are. At this point, I switch my strategy a bit. I'm still expanding inside out (building out from my core) BUT I will start specifically expanding toward AI borders (to try and stunt their growth) or to try and cut off some huge area of land so that no one else can get to it. Of course, there are always instances where you want to send a single settler off on his own to claim some strategic chokepoint or to grab some resource you don't have, but these are the exceptions, not the rule.

As far as your military goes, my best 'easy' answer for you is that, once you have your core built (maybe 6 cities or so) and once you start seeing the AI on a semi-regular basis, convert 1 (or 2) cities into military production centers. Build a barracks there and then their sole job is to crank out spearmen (or whatever). Send these units to other cities for defense and/or build up an offensive force. Setting up these military cities will free the rest of your civ to focus on expansion and growth.

Wow, long answer. Hope this helps a bit.

 

[cavemanf16]

I can't stress diplomacy enough. Engage in trading things with the AI often, and fully. That means getting ROP's with all the civ's you can, trade off those luxuries as much as possible for tech's and GP/turn, and get to know all the other civs as early as possible. This is probably the single biggest improvement/difference from Civ2.

 

[DaveMcW]

Outside in is the best "pure builder" strategy. But inside out with a few short wars is so much better.

 

[eriador]

I tend to do a modified inside out like Shirleyrocks does. I build several core cities and by then I have a better idea of the lay of the land and then can start to aim for resources, cutting off land from the AI civs, or pushing back their expansion.

Trade trade trade for those techs early on. You will keep up in the tech tree while expanding. I found that once I was all alone on an island and when I finally got first contact found I was so far behind in techs it was ridiculous. The AI trades with each other alot and you will fall behind unless you use Diplomacy to keep up in the tech race early on.