Proposed changes to the wall system

Stringer1313

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I play single-player only, maybe build one ancient walls the entire game, and just beeline Civil Engineering to get automatically powerful walls instantly. I never choose Monarchy because I will never waste time building medieval walls. I've never built renaissance walls ever. I don't know if others are like me, but if so I would propose the following changes which I think will make it slightly more interesting:

- allow walls to give tourism value when you research Flight, value dependent of course on when the walls were built (just like with unique improvements and wonders). Old walls are one of my favorite things to look at when I travel :)
- make walls 50% cheaper under Monarchy, in addition to the +2 housing benefit for medieval walls
- Civil Engineering does not auto-give all your cities 200 hp walls, but it does make all previous walls obsolete, and requires you to build something ("fortifications"?) that will give you those 200 hp walls. So you can still beeline directly to the modern walls but you still have to build them.
- make renaissance walls give you +1 great artist point per turn
 
I play single-player only, maybe build one ancient walls the entire game, and just beeline Civil Engineering to get automatically powerful walls instantly. I never choose Monarchy because I will never waste time building medieval walls. I've never built renaissance walls ever. I don't know if others are like me, but if so I would propose the following changes which I think will make it slightly more interesting:

Got to admit, I have yet to build my third wall in Civ VI, and unless I get the Neuschwanstein Wonder in Civ V which requires Castles which require Walls to get the most out of, I don't build many walls in Civ V either - so, yes, Something needs to be done...

- allow walls to give tourism value when you research Flight, value dependent of course on when the walls were built (just like with unique improvements and wonders). Old walls are one of my favorite things to look at when I travel :)
- make walls 50% cheaper under Monarchy, in addition to the +2 housing benefit for medieval walls
- Civil Engineering does not auto-give all your cities 200 hp walls, but it does make all previous walls obsolete, and requires you to build something ("fortifications"?) that will give you those 200 hp walls. So you can still beeline directly to the modern walls but you still have to build them.
- make renaissance walls give you +1 great artist point per turn

Tourism from Old Walls and Monarchs being somewhat 'Wall Happy' are both good suggestions. I'd add one, that Old Walls could also be programmed to provide frequent Archeological Sites.

BUT let me put on my Military Historian Hat for a moment...
There is no such thing as a modern City Wall. The last attempt to complete protect a city by a wall was in the Renaissance, and they were in response to the rise in numbers of Bombards and cannon, and are variously referred to as 'Italian Trace', 'Vauban', or 'Geometric' fortifications. That is the accurate model for the 'Renaissance Walls' in Civ VI

After that, during the early Industrial Era, Fortresses of concrete and steel holding cannon were built around a very few cities (Paris being the prime example). The last fortifications of this type were Border/Coastal fortifications like the Maginot Line or the Sevastopol Forts of the 1930s.

Now to put them in the game.

Bombards, Field Cannon and Artillery negate the effects of Ancient and Medieval Walls completely. You can still build them, but as soon as the first Bombard shows up, they stop helping: those tall stone walls simply melt away under the impact of heavy iron or stone balls at 1000 feet per second.

The Renaissance Walls provide +100 HP BUT they require Maintenance of +3 and they have a Bombardment Factor and Range equal to a Field Cannon (France in the early 18th century had 5 times more cannon mounted on city walls throughout the country than in the entire French Army, which was the largest in Europe!)

Civil Engineering has nothing to do directly with City Defense. The inherent internal City Defense comes from all the barricades and obstacles that became the Norm in street fighting in the 20th century (and today) and are really a (mostly) Modern Era or earlier, a Civil Unrest development.
Instead, with Civil Engineering, you can build the equivalent of the Industrial Era Ring Forts around a city. In game terms, instead of a Fort you can upgrade Forts, or build new, Fortresses.
A Fortress provides a +15 Defense to an occupying unit and has a Zone of Control and does damage to any passing enemy unit as if it were a Field Cannon. BUT upgrading a Fort or building a Fortress requires 2 Charges from a Military Engineer or expending a Great Engineer - they were hideously expensive.

With Mobilization (Modern Era) each of your cities gets the +200 'Internal Fortification' but not a Bombard capability - that you got from the Renaissance Walls and Fortresses.

I'd add one thing: the ability to defend Districts besides the City Center and Encampment. The basic walls would cover the City Center. For 1/3 the base cost of the wall per additional District, that protection extends to any/all Districts adjacent to the City Center or to a District adjacent to the City Center. In other words, if your city is compact enough, and you want to spend the resources, you can Wall all or most of it. I see the mechanism as Select Wall for construction, indicate how many Districts you want to cover and a Price/Build Time would show up. You should also be able to extend walls to new Districts later, but Upgrading from, say, Ancient to Medieval or Medieval to Renaissance most be done All At Once - meaning, as happened historically, providing a Vauban fortification to a large city is going to be Very Expensive indeed.
 
I'm definitely with you on the Civil Engineering making Walls obsolete, and giving Walls Tourism is definitely a step in the right direction.

I'd like to see a nerf to Civil Engineering myself and make Walls still buildable after it's researched. Instead of replacing Walls, Civil Engineering would just provide an additional +50 Fortification Strength.
 
I'd like to see a nerf to Civil Engineering myself and make Walls still buildable after it's researched. Instead of replacing Walls, Civil Engineering would just provide an additional +50 Fortification Strength.

Civil Engineering instantly taking everything from 0 to 200 defense is definitely excessive, and I think this is the most elegant solution. Having walls provide protection against modern units may seem a bit odd, but that sort of abstraction is always part of civ games. On a somewhat related note, I'd also change Civil Engineering walls to set to 0HP when captured instead of recharging. Capturing after heavy air and artillery bombardment (or even nuclear attack) and immediately using its ranged attack against the former defenders doesn't make much sense.
 
Agree with OP and I really like the tourism idea for obsolete walls. At the moment though I don't think civil engineering needs a nerf, especially with the rate rocket artillery can take down walls late game. I'm more in favor of just a significant buff to both medieval and Renaissance walls.
 
I don't think civil engineering or anything else should give free walls or any other free defence.

Each second era should come with a wall upgrade which you need to build but you can always skip to the best one so you dont need to build all walls.

Like wall tech tree should be something like this in my opinion:
  1. Ancient walls
  2. Medieval walls
  3. Star Fort (industrial)
  4. Artillery firebase (atomic)
 
Really a bunker would be good for modern-atomic. Though like mentioned earlier the defense of cities these days is due to bombed out concrete and steel rubble making good defensive fortifications and preventing vehicles from moving easily through the city.
 
Hopefully Walls becoming obsolete early won't be as much of a problem now!

For anyone interested, here are the changes made to Walls in the Summer 2017 Update:
  • Walls now provide Tourism, and do not have Maintenance
  • Battering Ram and Siege Tower now upgrade to the Medic support unit, and no longer are functional against a city with Urban Defenses
  • Gave St George an additional Charge
  • Updated Monarchy's Medieval Wall bonus to: "+50% Production toward defensive buildings. +1 Housing for each level of wall."
  • Moved “Urban Defenses” from Civil Engineering to Steel
 
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