Revolutions

[superisis]

Don't know if this has been posted or not (I'm sure a similar idea has).

What if there was a memory period for every civil unrest within a city... let's say of 10 turns. So after the turn you had a civil unrest (and fixed it) your city wont return exactly to normal until 10 turns later... there'll be no utside difference, except the seed of dissent has been sowed. So if there is another civil unrest within the same city within the time period, it will spark another ten turns, and if there is a third civil unrest, there will be a revolution!

A revolution would signify that the city would become it's own state (civ), called "The Republic of [city's name]". The military units inside the city would be halved (and rounded upwards if an odd number [let say 7 units --> 3.5 -->4 units]) and controled by the newly created civ. The civ would be hostile to the nation it broke free from and unlikely to trust it (as if a RoP treaty had been broken with a sneak attack). Also the city ould get a unique military unit with a high defensive rating (maybe a 2 for ancient era, 4 for medieval, etc) called a mob, or revolutionaries or something (to prevent revolutionary cities from being unguarded if the original civ had placed no protective units in the city) and perhaps a worker unit. The new civ would keep half or 2/3s of the city's culture, and 2/3s of its population.

It would really be a nice way of seeing an old, large empire crumbling together

So, waddaya all think?

 

[Darwin420]

That could be interesting. It definitely would make for taking care of unrest a priority.

I think that the idea of independent city-states is a good one. Hopefully they implement this is cIV!!! In addition to the barbarian camps, there would be cities already out there that are single-city civs, named after their city.

 

[superisis]

Well, not single city cvs at the beging of time (since that's the same as having another opponent). But what about civilizations appearing from goody huts?

Example: You walk into a goody hut with a warrior at 1000 BC. The message reads something like: "Your warrior has encountered an advanced but highly reclusive civilization, they do not wish to bow to your puny kingdom". You unit is returned to his original square, and loses his movement point (as if he attacked successfully a pack of units). The goody hut is transformed into the capital of the new civilization.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

OK, I think what needs to be defined is the difference between a Civil War and a Rebellion-at least from my standpoint for the purposes of a game of civ.

1) Civil War: This is when one or more of your cities breaks away from your nation to form its own independant state-normally for political, ethnic or religious reasons. The chance of a city secceding from your nation will depend on the average happiness of the city, the number of turns the city has BEEN at that happiness, the number of troops garrisoned in or near the city, the distance of the city from the capital, the city's proximity to other secceding cities, crime/corruption, culture and % of foreign population. In order for a city to even WANT to break away, though, a certain 'trigger event' must occur first, such as an outbreak of city unrest, a change in government, a sudden drop in culture, loss of your capital, war weariness or corruption reaching a certain national threshold or the like. The new nation will almost certainly have your culture group, but its relations with you will depend largely on how you treat it.

2) Rebellion: This is when an entire 'faction' within your society takes umbrage with the way you rule them. This will usually be most likely to occur when the average happiness of this faction falls below a certain threshold-though again certain trigger events would be required to set things in motion. The effects of a rebellion would depend on three main factors-the 'faction' which rebels, its current happiness level at the time of rebellion AND the current 'influence' of said faction. So, for instance, if your military were to rebel, then you might lose control of x% of your units for Y turns, depending on just how unhappy the military are AND what there current level of influence is. Usually, rebellions end when you either do something to make that faction happy OR do something which increases the OVERALL level of happiness within your society.

Aside from these, each city would have different states of 'being', from hopelessly happy and loyal to outright rebellious. Each stage in between-especially when happiness drops below 50%-brings the chance of certain extra benefits or penalties to your city-whether it be a decline in output, to a loss of output altogether, to acts of vandalism and insurgency, to the production of rebel units and partisans (sorry, I can only think of the penalties at the moment ). This will, IMHO, make an excellent change to the happy/unhappy/disorder model which currently exists.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

On the other subject you raise, I have previously advocated abandoning 'goody huts' and 'barbarian camps' in favour of a single 'Minor Nations' system. Basically, these would consist of anything from a few units (nomads) to a nation of equal or less than 6 cities (depending on when you first meet them). The main issue is that, by their own industry, they will never reach major power status (except by conquest) and, aside from one unique trait, will almost always be behind the the major civs in tech and 'social' development. They will, however, have varying degrees of aggression and sedentarism, though these can be modified through interaction with other nations (major or minor). The key, though, is their UNIQUE TRAIT. This trait will normally tie into one of their normal 'civ traits', but will be something which they, and THEY ALONE, can do-unless they can be successfully integrated into another existing nation (again, major or minor). These traits might include wonders, units or improvements unique to them, or techs which only they have access to, boosts in the research of certain tech fields or bonuses to science, culture, happiness production output of cities. The other good thing about minor nations, though, is that they can also act as an impediment to early growth by the major civs, and act as buffers between normally hostile neighbours!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Darwin420]

Maybe a mixture of "Minor Nations" and "City-States" would be good. Sometimes you come across a small single independent city - perhaps to be absorbed into your empire, or perhaps just a new trading route; sometimes you come across 3 or 4 cities that are a Minor Nation - again, to be absorbed or traded with.

This would provide 'filler' of empty land, and potentially create unique buffer zones between the Major Civilizations. I think it would add a whole new level to the gameplay.

@Aussie_Lurker: the idea of abandoning goody huts and barbarian camps isn't that bad, if minor nations and city-states are brought into the picture. I especially like the idea that they have a Unique Trait - maybe they have access to a special luxury, or resource.

 

[superisis]

Nah, they don't need a special minor nation luxury/resource... just allow the game to have a lot more luxuries... and then minor nations could have them by geography alone (if there are more types of luxuries, but few of each kind... then you might stumble apon a minor nation that is the only one with connection to, lets say, jade)

 

[brinko]

somehow i could see great pleasure in recapturing rebel cities by using all the force imaginable...
i would probaly bomb the city right down to one and fill it back in with my own country workers. but then again i strongly believe that possible opposition(rebels, marxists, resisitors etc) in my totalitarian empire should be sent to the gulags in communism, aushwitz in facism, guantonamo in democracy, or simple beheaded or enslaved in monarchy.

 

[ybbor]

Don't know if this has been posted or not (I'm sure a similar idea has).

that's why there's a sticky at the top of the page archiving every [important/non-repeat] dicussion.

the big thread for civil war