(Rising Tide) Station Sentinel MADNESS

[Red Menace]

Never again will a station die, so long as a the Sentinel is watching.

okay I didn't buy Rising Tide but I did play the Demo, and now I wish I bought, But moving on. I made this thread because someone was asking about Stations in RT more specifically about the mad bonuses that come with the SS and others, Basically ALL yields are doubled. Recycler? yes other buildings that I cant remember also yes.

Alternative market huuuuge yes I had a TIER TWO Palatine with 20 Culture and 33 Energy that's TIER 2 now I didn't max out my bonuses by the end but I had the 30% bonus to station yields from the Diplo trait and a recycler.

I can only imagine how crazy it gets with a Production or science or even food station, but to all those who own Rising Tide please post your crazy station yields here

 

[Manannan]

I suddenly want to try an OCC with Polystralia spamming trade routes out to stations to see what happens. Could be pretty silly.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

That answers my question from the first impressions thread.
How do devs miss this ? The moment we knew about the Station Sentinel I knew that it could be OP with Alternative Markets.

 

[Red Menace]

That answers my question from the first impressions thread.
How do devs miss this ? The moment we knew about the Station Sentinel I knew that it could be OP with Alternative Markets.

you should really try the demo, I'm going to try later to max out what I can in 100 turns but yeah its pretty crazy. I'm not sure how high it can get but it has limits.

for one the station has to be in orbital range so over the course of the game depending on luck you could get 2, 3, or even stations in orbital range I definitely want the launch complex now. but it means that stations will define a certain city/aspect of your empire.

side note: the Space Venice mod is definitely going to be interesting.

further side note: the orbital coverage satellite has no effect radius.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

How do devs miss this ? The moment we knew about the Station Sentinel I knew that it could be OP with Alternative Markets.

Just because one thing is powerful when combined with another thing, does not automatically make it OP. On the contrary, that's just good strategy synergy.

 

[GenEngineer]

Just because one thing is powerful when combined with another thing, does not automatically make it OP. On the contrary, that's just good strategy synergy.

This. There is a difference between being good and being overpowered. Overpowered implies that something is so good that you're taking a penalty of some kind if your not doing it. Given that this is a combination of things working together, there is even more chances to find better options elsewhere.

 

[Barathor]

If you're heavily invested in Might, you can even automatically get the orbital coverage around the ones you're trading with.

In my first game that I'm playing now, I accidentally built the station sentinel early before realizing I actually need orbital coverage for it, d'oh! After conquering a city near it and expanding its orbital range, I deployed it and it's quite nice. I love my little station friend now, haha.

Yeah, with those other yields also doubling, I'm not sure yet that I would say it's overpowered, but it's maybe close.

 

[Arkangelus]

Here's a nice one to get started. It was only 2 production and 57 gold from my land based capital, I'm not sure why less...

Spoiler :

Moderator Action: Spoiler tag added

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Just because one thing is powerful when combined with another thing, does not automatically make it OP. On the contrary, that's just good strategy synergy.

This. There is a difference between being good and being overpowered. Overpowered implies that something is so good that you're taking a penalty of some kind if your not doing it. Given that this is a combination of things working together, there is even more chances to find better options elsewhere.

Yeah, synergy isn't automatically OP. I get that.
But can you really stand before another human being and say with a straight face that 68 energy from a single trade route is reasonable ?

 

[Red Menace]

okay so I did it I tried to max out all bonuses possible in 100 turns I managed to get 60% more station yields from a Diplo trait and of course sentinels and a recycler.

EDIT: well cant get the picture to work so I will tell you the yields

From Tier 3 Banu Musa base yields are 10 science I am getting: 31 science 55 energy and 3 production

it seems that the 60% is from the Modified amount, similar to how in Civ V a golden age in Worlds fair is 20% of the doubled culture, 200 culture becomes 400 and 20% of 400 is 80 so it becomes 480 but you already knew that

there were also 3 other stations eligible to trade with but I couldn't because I only had one TR slot. they were all tier 1 and had more yield with modifiers than tier 3 without modifiers

 

[Doviello]

check those yields (playing on easy, don't know if that gives me some sort of yield bonus):

Spoiler :

 

[omniclast]

Orbital coverage isn't a hindrance because there's an agreement that shows up sooner or later that gives you orbital coverage over stations. The might virtue is redundant.

 

[LORD ORION]

Sounds OP

Until you get a starting city ridiculous things like +15 food and +15 production with 1 internal trade route.

Gotta be insane bonuses to compete with that.

 

[Ishea]

In late game, dumping a bunch of trade routes onto a new city is totally worth it.
You easily get bonusses of 20+ food and production per trade route.
Do that with say 4-5 cities, and your new startup city will grow very very fast.
On the water it's even more fun, as you can put your city up near some stuff, then move to your ideal location, claiming land as you move every turn, and the city grows in pop quickly as well, so after 2--4 turns of moving, your city will have 5+ pop and have a decent amount of claimed land(sea) to utilise.
Then you can begin building all your favorite buildings each taking only 1 turn to complete.

 

[Red Menace]

check those yields (playing on easy, don't know if that gives me some sort of yield bonus):

Spoiler :

awesome, but picture Omoikane 4/6/10food instead of palatine just picture that 31 culture is food instead. it took my level 7 city to 12 in no-time and it was still growing faster than any city I've ever seen in BE

 

[Alkaid]

Good lord, and here I'd been ignoring stations for the most part so far. I knew they were better and had a satellite but I didn't expect this big of a change.

Would deserve to be toned down in a patch, but not too harshly. Making it so getting all this station stuff set up actually be rewarding is great, even if the yields are a bit too high as is.

 

[Amrunril]

I would add that, in addition to being generally imbalanced, this issue tends to homogenize stations. If the station Sentinel only doubled base yields, it would serve to emphasize stations' unique bonuses. Science stations would be even better at providing science, production stations would be even better at providing production, and so forth. With the Alternative Markets bonus also being doubled though, these distinctions become less significant, as every station simply becomes an obscene source of energy. The issue is somewhat analagous to Spain + One with Nature making every natural wonder a faith powerhouse in Civ V, but unlike One with Nature, Alternative Markets was on the edge of being overpowered even without the Station Sentinel.

 

[Red Menace]

I would add that, in addition to being generally imbalanced, this issue tends to homogenize stations. If the station Sentinel only doubled base yields, it would serve to emphasize stations' unique bonuses. Science stations would be even better at providing science, production stations would be even better at providing production, and so forth. With the Alternative Markets bonus also being doubled though, these distinctions become less significant, as every station simply becomes an obscene source of energy. The issue is somewhat analagous to Spain + One with Nature making every natural wonder a faith powerhouse in Civ V, but unlike One with Nature, Alternative Markets was on the edge of being overpowered even without the Station Sentinel.

well Alternative markets makes Red Sun look like a chump..... because it is, 4 energy is really not worth it compared to Banu Musa Palatine Stet Mining or Omoikane. I think they will patch it so it only doubles original yields. I assumed it only doubled the stations original yield but it was obvious it didn't when I was making 50+ energy on a station with no energy in the base yield.

did you know if you trade with a station and you have alternative Markets get up in tier than kill the station when it respawns it will remember the previous Bonus and stack a new one on top. I wonder if this happens in RT and how it looks with the Station sentinel.

I don't know about Alternative markets being OP its strong no doubt but only IF you have a station and than it will net you only so much, how often do you trade with four or more stations at the same time?

 

[LORD ORION]

well Alternative markets makes Red Sun look like a chump..... because it is, 4 energy is really not worth it compared to Banu Musa Palatine Stet Mining or Omoikane.

Red sun scales to higher output totals than the others at higher tier levels.
Also remember that there are alot of energy buffing picks.

Seems weak, until you pile on all the possible additives to it. (but energy focus was a weak path in vanilla, I haven't made up my mind about it in BERT yet)

 

[Halbbruder]

Sounds OP

Until you get a starting city ridiculous things like +15 food and +15 production with 1 internal trade route.

Gotta be insane bonuses to compete with that.

They're not OP. Stations are now useful. Last thing we need is complaints that they're too strong so they'll be nerfed back to uselessness.