Okay so let me preface this by saying I've only played on Regent and Monarch Level but to this point the following strategy has worked for me. First I try to get iron working and a source of iron as fast as i can. I place my second city or sometimes my third by the iron no matter where it is. My 3rd 4th and 5th cities im usually looking to put near luxuries no matter where they are. By the time I've built 5 cities I'm usually attacking my weakest near neighbour with swordsman. I've found that if I can get enough warriror explorers out there (2 or 3 is usually good) I can make contact with other civs before they talk to each other and this lets me be the early science broker. At monarch level sometimes they get ahead of you but It's no big deal just concentrate on buying techs you need to reach your research goal. From there my goal is always to research the techs the computer isn't. So here's the question I'd like to see discussed. Which techs does the AI tend to gravitate towards? From what I've seen if i head towards republic I can get some techs the comp doesn't. I've never actually taken notes on this though. So my modified Science Broker strategy is to go about 50/50 science/tech but to get advances the comp isn't getting so I can sell them for cash to ALL the comps as well as trading for the ones the AI researches and selling those to the other AI's. The help I need from you guys is to let me know what you've seen in terms of techs the AI tends to get.
Science Broker Analysis
- Thread starter Essex
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One other thing I 'd like to add. I read about people having 5 figure treasuries and I'm very confused. I come from the Starcraft school of thought which says if you have extra money to spend you're losing the game. After I reach republic and until I get the wall street, I always try to keep my treasury around 300 to 400 gold for emergencies. It isn't doing you any good sitting there and if you rush a temple or library you can be getting extra culture and/or science. Once I have the Wall Street I like to have 1000 so I can always get the max 50 bonus. Comments?
It hasn't worked for me, the comp hasn't been paying me too much but maybe it is a bit stingier at monarch. It seems like they only stay a few techs behind.
As for the big treasuries... Well I am like you, I played AoE/RoR/AoK/AoC so I play the game a bit differently. The money in my treasury isn't helping me unless it is hurting my opponents.
As for the big treasuries... Well I am like you, I played AoE/RoR/AoK/AoC so I play the game a bit differently. The money in my treasury isn't helping me unless it is hurting my opponents.
I have noticed in particular the AI always researches things which give extra military units, and doesn't prioritize techs which don't. Fuedalism ALWAYS gets researched (at least on Monarch through Deity), while the road to democracy often stays clear initially.
The technology whore is an interesting way to play, but I have never actually gotten to end game using that strategy. Has anyone here, and how did they do it?
The technology whore is an interesting way to play, but I have never actually gotten to end game using that strategy. Has anyone here, and how did they do it?
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The tech trader usually ends sometime in the Industrial age. Your goals is to at the point, have great science output and stay #1. You want to be the first to get oil / factories / coal / etc.
If I get Music Theory, or other wonder building techs I hold them. Of course, I do go to the trade screen. I love to see ALL of the other civs needing it. I know it gives me an edge to get some of those great middle ages wonders.
My last tech trading game wound up with a military victory. The computer jumped to the space race. I had a decent tech lead. I crunched the spaceships of China and India. Eventually crunched them. Turned on Russia. After taking a decent amount of his territory - domination victory.
I think this will also work well for a space race. Where I don't know is a culture victory. It may be counter-productive.
If I get Music Theory, or other wonder building techs I hold them. Of course, I do go to the trade screen. I love to see ALL of the other civs needing it. I know it gives me an edge to get some of those great middle ages wonders.
My last tech trading game wound up with a military victory. The computer jumped to the space race. I had a decent tech lead. I crunched the spaceships of China and India. Eventually crunched them. Turned on Russia. After taking a decent amount of his territory - domination victory.
I think this will also work well for a space race. Where I don't know is a culture victory. It may be counter-productive.
I think we all agree that at one point or another the use of the tech-broker strategy works very well. However, some other threads have questioned the legitamacy of this tactic. Their contention is that this is an exploit in the AI's achilles. They say that selling one civ a tech at an exorbitant per turn rate, even if the last civ pays you only 1 buck is still an exploit.
I completely disagree and Ill use my latest example to prove why- however I'd like for others to explain their justification, if necessary - or otherwise explain their ideas.
I am playing on Regent on a Tiny map with max civs. I already killed off the Egyptians and the French have a slight tech lead on me. At one point in the industrial age, France and I took different tech paths (first time in the game that no one was playing follow the leader) and I decided this is my chance, I started selling to the Greeks - who were gracious to me and as such will always pay more. They paid about 25 per turn for steel and when I turned to the Russians, they paid about 15 and then to the Germans for about 5 but the French would pay only 1. I utilized this to my advantage and bought replacable parts for about 650 lump sum + world map. I then resold this to the rest of the world and lost a bit of cash but the moral of the story is that I actually made a net gain cause the inital sale of steel allowed me to get the replacable parts and as such allowed me to gain a tech lead while breaking about even in the cash game. I believe, that althoug this is only Regent, it allowed me to get on par and as such, and get the momentum for a win. I think when playing on Monarch and Diety, this may be a way to stifle the ever expanding enemy civs and as such remain on par with them and as such level the playing field and I see this as only a good thing for the game and the gamer. Some have argued that a real player would not pay the prices for tech that a AI will, but I payed more and would do it again. There is never a point where you can buy cheaper then you sell to any one civ and this makes sense. The AI also plays tech broker at times, as the French did in this game till I caught them - in this case, the rest of the civs were suddenly following me when the French would not sell due to wars. Circumstantial but none the less part of beauty of the diplomacy in this game.
You opions here____________ .
I completely disagree and Ill use my latest example to prove why- however I'd like for others to explain their justification, if necessary - or otherwise explain their ideas.
I am playing on Regent on a Tiny map with max civs. I already killed off the Egyptians and the French have a slight tech lead on me. At one point in the industrial age, France and I took different tech paths (first time in the game that no one was playing follow the leader) and I decided this is my chance, I started selling to the Greeks - who were gracious to me and as such will always pay more. They paid about 25 per turn for steel and when I turned to the Russians, they paid about 15 and then to the Germans for about 5 but the French would pay only 1. I utilized this to my advantage and bought replacable parts for about 650 lump sum + world map. I then resold this to the rest of the world and lost a bit of cash but the moral of the story is that I actually made a net gain cause the inital sale of steel allowed me to get the replacable parts and as such allowed me to gain a tech lead while breaking about even in the cash game. I believe, that althoug this is only Regent, it allowed me to get on par and as such, and get the momentum for a win. I think when playing on Monarch and Diety, this may be a way to stifle the ever expanding enemy civs and as such remain on par with them and as such level the playing field and I see this as only a good thing for the game and the gamer. Some have argued that a real player would not pay the prices for tech that a AI will, but I payed more and would do it again. There is never a point where you can buy cheaper then you sell to any one civ and this makes sense. The AI also plays tech broker at times, as the French did in this game till I caught them - in this case, the rest of the civs were suddenly following me when the French would not sell due to wars. Circumstantial but none the less part of beauty of the diplomacy in this game.
You opions here____________ .
Kev
Hired Goon
I am nearing the end game of a Monarch game done on a large map. I had a bit of trouble in the beginning trying to broker techs because I could not get in contact with some other civs for quite a while. Without the Lighthouse and with continents being so distant, I just could not get a galley out to them and the Lighthouse civ did not send a ship out until much later. I was forced to just deal with my own continent for a while - and of course I ALWAYS seem to get stuck with the continent that has FOUR civs on it. I had to kill off the Indians to give myself a better foothold, so I only had the Japanese and the Russians to trade with. The other civs turned out to be the Persians, Babylonians, Zulus and Germans. Of course, the Persians and Babylonians kept building wonders before I could get the techs in ancient times, so I knew I was going to have to work from behind.
Well, when I finally met the Persians, I was indeed behind. After some initial trading, I found that there was only one thing that I could do to get myself even and give myself a shot at climbing into a tech lead: be a jerk.
I lowered my science to 0% and my luxuries to minimum (giving myself maximum per-turn income) and called on the Persians (the most advanced). I bought all of their techs for large per-turn payouts. If I couldn't buy one, I sold to other civs what I just bought for per-turn to increase MY per-turn income to buy more from the Persians. Then, I up and declared war. With all of my per-turn income back, I put it back into tech and even began to take a lead. And the Persians were so far away that I really didn't care what went on. I was even able to bribe their Babylonian neighbors to go to war with them. So while I sat at home and built infrastructure and traded for luxuries and the like, war was raging far away. I kept trying to get peace every turn as I feared war weariness, and I was able to have peace with the Persians before it set in.
The most important thing that this allowed was getting to Theory of Evolution the quickest. As the Chinese, I was able to produce some leaders, and I kept one at the ready in case I needed it for this wonder. Thankfully I didn't, and as I was building it, I found it was a great strategy to boost science to the max before it was finished. I was taking a loss of about 150-180 per turn, but I got some timely techs and when the Theory was built, the extra two gave me a nice lead that I've kept throughout. Then I put science to normal levels and forged ahead.
A note about the Theory of Evolution: It would seem that once it's built it will NOT give you the tech that you are currently working on as one of the two (I guess unless it HAS to due to prerequisites). This is good if you are close to finishing a tech that you've been researching for 5 turns, but could be bad if you just started a very important tech that you would like to have had sooner rather than later. Also could be bad if it gives you something like flight before you'd like it and cancels your Colossus.
OK, so the moral of the story:
1. Even without good contact in the beginning it is still possible to climb into and above the science rate with diplomacy - even if it's EVIL diplomacy. At least at Monarch level - I have a feeling that the same game on Deity would have dusted me.
2. Theory of Evolution holds a greater importance than ever in the higher level tech races.
Well, when I finally met the Persians, I was indeed behind. After some initial trading, I found that there was only one thing that I could do to get myself even and give myself a shot at climbing into a tech lead: be a jerk.
I lowered my science to 0% and my luxuries to minimum (giving myself maximum per-turn income) and called on the Persians (the most advanced). I bought all of their techs for large per-turn payouts. If I couldn't buy one, I sold to other civs what I just bought for per-turn to increase MY per-turn income to buy more from the Persians. Then, I up and declared war. With all of my per-turn income back, I put it back into tech and even began to take a lead. And the Persians were so far away that I really didn't care what went on. I was even able to bribe their Babylonian neighbors to go to war with them. So while I sat at home and built infrastructure and traded for luxuries and the like, war was raging far away. I kept trying to get peace every turn as I feared war weariness, and I was able to have peace with the Persians before it set in.
The most important thing that this allowed was getting to Theory of Evolution the quickest. As the Chinese, I was able to produce some leaders, and I kept one at the ready in case I needed it for this wonder. Thankfully I didn't, and as I was building it, I found it was a great strategy to boost science to the max before it was finished. I was taking a loss of about 150-180 per turn, but I got some timely techs and when the Theory was built, the extra two gave me a nice lead that I've kept throughout. Then I put science to normal levels and forged ahead.
A note about the Theory of Evolution: It would seem that once it's built it will NOT give you the tech that you are currently working on as one of the two (I guess unless it HAS to due to prerequisites). This is good if you are close to finishing a tech that you've been researching for 5 turns, but could be bad if you just started a very important tech that you would like to have had sooner rather than later. Also could be bad if it gives you something like flight before you'd like it and cancels your Colossus.
OK, so the moral of the story:
1. Even without good contact in the beginning it is still possible to climb into and above the science rate with diplomacy - even if it's EVIL diplomacy. At least at Monarch level - I have a feeling that the same game on Deity would have dusted me.
2. Theory of Evolution holds a greater importance than ever in the higher level tech races.
Hey man, I've won 2 Deity games now, and your strategy on Deity would NOT have dusted you. Although you would have had to take your "be a jerk" to a much bigger extreme. One thing I've learned about Deity: you can't build ANY of the wonders first, and you don't get ANY techs first. We're talking the AI's feudalling in the BC's. That pretty much blows the science broker strategy out of the water. The solution: Despot-rush your neighbors, and extort all their technologies from them. That lets you keep up. Starting with 4 civs on your home continent, IMO, is a huge blessing. At least on Deity. Also, on Deity I've noticed the AI's are a lot more irritable. It cuts both ways, though--they're annoyed at each other as well; not just at you. So your playing two AI's against each other works.
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